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Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#21

Post by cassepipe »

joe_mamba wrote: post #14
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #8

To everyone who wants to dismantle the EU: this is not the solution. Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. The UK left the EU and implemented its own version of chat control - Online Safety Act - without any transparency or real opposition. The right solution is the political fight. Europe is our home. We must keep it in good shape by getting rid of anything that makes it wo…

>Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. I don't like this comparison at all. Europe, the land that housed, fed and scarified my ancestors, is my house, not this supra-governmental corrupt bureaucratic institution called the EU that does not represent me nor speak in my name. Empires, monarchies, governments and all such man-made institutions like the EU get torn down all time…

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and your ancestor probably scarified each other, the land didn't

Turns out unifying a lot of different countries that have different languages and interest is a hard problem and in order to satisfy everyone a little bureaucracy is the price to pay. You may find it too bloated, too slow or even too corrupt but burning it to the ground is a lunacy for people who entertain clean slate delusions: Whenever it happens, it is a catastrophy for everyone but a few opportunists.

Europe is imperfect but it has rejected the idea of war outside of itself. I don't think any European citizen would go to war with their neighbour. Just that is an amazing achievement. Now it can stay an economic union and big powers can pick and choose how to manipulate each one of us for their own purposes or it can strive to be a political union and have a standing on the international stage. We're not there yet but we will, eventually, we just need to hang tight. Things take time.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#23

Post by petre »

Grikbdl wrote: post #19
petre wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> go away USA you're not using our bases to refuel Tbf this is only the position of a few extreme governments. Other European countries have been perfectly happy to let the US use their bases for this.

Yes. Basically Eastern Europe, which is what the US actually needed. Bulgaria speculated a bit for the opportunity to spend 1bn on weapons for their second hand F16s (better than plowing MiG 21s that they had).

Probably also why we now have a flood of lame Trump jokes about Meloni.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#24

Post by joe_mamba »

cassepipe wrote: post #21
joe_mamba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. I don't like this comparison at all. Europe, the land that housed, fed and scarified my ancestors, is my house, not this supra-governmental corrupt bureaucratic institution called the EU that does not represent me nor speak in my name. Empires, monarchies, governments and all such man-made institutions like the EU get torn down all time…

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here

Would you also tell that to native American Indians? Or to the Japanese? Or to the Indians?

It's no BS unless you've been brainwashed and make massive efforts to ignore reality. Blood based belonging to a place is hardwired in every culture and society on the planet, from Asia to the Americas. NA, UK, AU, NZ, and the EU just have added a lot of PR paint on top to pretend it doesn't exist in their liberal societies, but it does, except it's much more under the table and subversive.

>a little bureaucracy is the price to pay.

Taking away people's privacy and freedom of speech is a little more problematic than just "a little bureaucracy".

>Europe is imperfect but it has rejected the idea of war outside of itself. I don't think any European citizen would go to war with their neighbour. Just that is an amazing achievement.

That WAS an achievement in the past, but if you dissolve the EU institution tomorrow, no former EU member state will suddenly got to war with their neighbour just because the EU doesn't exist anymore. So the myth that the EU is somehow preventing war in EU today is bogus. That was history, this is today.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#25

Post by logicchains »

embedding-shape wrote: post #9
joe_mamba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but expecting EU to clean up after the US shooting itself in the foot Please don't pretend to misunderstand a point just to manufacture the opportunity to reply in bad faith. Nobody in EU is saying the EU should clean up others' mess around the world, people are just saying the EU should be busy building domestic capacity and capabilities to insulate itself from the issues caused by others around the world, such as…

> people are just saying the EU should be busy building domestic capacity and capabilities to insulate itself from the issues caused by others around the world If this is what you wanted to have said, say that from the beginning instead of leaving some vague and ambiguous "general complaint about the Strait of Hormuz" and maybe others like me will understand you better. Somehow you seem to imply none of those things…

>Somehow you seem to imply none of those things are happening right now in Europe, is this really your perspective? You think no one is thinking about domestic energy supplies? Do you not understand how EU works? Lots of things are happening in parallel, not the least a lot of work around energy dependency and other core infrastructure issues.

"The purpose of a system is what it does". So far there's no sign of any progress, it's just getting worse. The Draghi report was two years ago and nothing has been done to address the issues it raised.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#26

Post by LaurensBER »

terabytest wrote: post #22

As a EU citizen I’m at a loss for what to do about this. I feel that they’re going against any average citizen’s interest. What can we do to make them stop?

Short-term, follow the steps on the website and contact your political representative to explain to them why it's such a bad idea.

Long-term, switch to another messenger app that's opensource and truly E2E encrypted.

That also shows why this is such a foolish proposal.

The truly scary people are not on the "consumer" chat apps anyway and most certainly will be the first ones to switch to another communication channel if this passes. If this will have any effect it'll be that some, "dumb" criminals will be caught.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#27

Post by hsuduebc2 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #14
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #8

To everyone who wants to dismantle the EU: this is not the solution. Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. The UK left the EU and implemented its own version of chat control - Online Safety Act - without any transparency or real opposition. The right solution is the political fight. Europe is our home. We must keep it in good shape by getting rid of anything that makes it wo…

>Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. I don't like this comparison at all. Europe, the land that housed, fed and scarified my ancestors, is my house, not this supra-governmental corrupt bureaucratic institution called the EU that does not represent me nor speak in my name. Empires, monarchies, governments and all such man-made institutions like the EU get torn down all time…

I agree on the base of the argument. EU after all was created because of one tragedy. I'm absolutely sure that there will be more gruesome wars on the continent and I even wouldn't rule out the collapse in the future because petty tribalism holding everything back as always.

But this is the hatred you are talking about?

https://www.politico.eu/article/europeans-embrace-eu-gloom-w...

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#29

Post by logicchains »

cassepipe wrote: post #21
joe_mamba wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dismantling the EU is like burning down your own house just to get rid of flies. I don't like this comparison at all. Europe, the land that housed, fed and scarified my ancestors, is my house, not this supra-governmental corrupt bureaucratic institution called the EU that does not represent me nor speak in my name. Empires, monarchies, governments and all such man-made institutions like the EU get torn down all time…

Let's stop the blut and soil BS right here. I am all for european panationalism but don't pretend that Europe is "your house" where "your ancestors" were. You come from a very specific culture inside it which has its own specific language and traditions and that has spent most its history warring with its neighbours, sometimes people in the next village speaking a different version of your lanuage. My ancestors and y…

>Europe is imperfect but it has rejected the idea of war outside of itself. I don't think any European citizen would go to war with their neighbour. Just that is an amazing achievement.

Not really. South American countries don't go to war with each other and they don't have a union. Nor do central American countries.

Re: Chat Control 1.0 and 2.0 Explained

#30

Post by hsuduebc2 »

petre wrote: post #15
joe_mamba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but expecting EU to clean up after the US shooting itself in the foot Please don't pretend to misunderstand a point just to manufacture the opportunity to reply in bad faith. Nobody in EU is saying the EU should clean up others' mess around the world, people are just saying the EU should be busy building domestic capacity and capabilities to insulate itself from the issues caused by others around the world, such as…

[flagged]

You are mistaking Hacker News for Xitter or Truth Social. This is not an argument, it is just a pile of buzzwords and grievance posting.

“Next Stasi”, “eurocrats”, “cripple domestic agriculture”, “dumping German diesel cars”, “useless talk”. None of this actually responds to the point about European energy dependence.

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