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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#91

I am the son of a (Cuban) immigrant and a German woman. Once, the police asked me if I spoke German, probably because my hair is dark and my eyes are brown. Germany has a bias against “southerners”—the darker your skin, the worse it is. If your skin is light and your eyes are light-colored, you won’t even be perceived as an immigrant as long as you keep your mouth shut. But if you look southern or Asian, you’ll alway…

> It's gotten to the point where I've now lost faith in democracy. Things aren't getting better... "it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time" - unknown, often attributed to Churchill Rah-rah democracy advocates, and patriots of countries which imagine themselves democratic, often attribute all sort of mythical virtues to democr…

It’s a good recipe for consensus. I find it easier to reluctantly submit to the will of the majority than I would to the will of a minority. There are certainly a few opponents of democracy who feel exactly the opposite, but most people probably feel the same way I do. That is precisely where the stabilizing effect of democracy lies: it makes people compliant. But it is a misconception that democratic decisions are intrinsically better than others in terms of substance. A majority can pass nonsense just as easily as a minority can make wise decisions. What’s important in a democracy is that people truly believe that the will of the majority prevails—or, even more importantly, the common good. If they lose that belief, a democratic society slowly dies.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#92

I've been here for a decade, and sadly I feel the issue is upward mobility for skilled workers. Unless you're working for an intl company, with ex-pats in positions of leadership, your chances of "getting ahead" are going to be limited, especially when you're competing against natives. The reason is sadly, the culture is very reserved and cautious, so as an "outsider" it's going to take A LONG time before you can be…

[flagged]

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the biggest factor. Ambitious people who want to become rich do not have any opportunities in Germany. It is good for people who are content with a middling but comfortable life. That's why most ambitious people leave.

This is not a bad thing. Wealth inequality is destructive for societies.

There is a level where it's probably bad (France, Russia, China prior to revolutions). But wealth equality (Russia, China, Cambodia, all of eastern Europe, Cuba, etc. AFTER revolutions) seems to be infinitely more destructive.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#94

I lived there for around 6 months like 15 years ago so perhaps it's changed a lot since then. But even as an Englishman, it was very different to home. I remember the supermarket was shut all Sunday and was only open until 12 on the Saturday, and it shut early in the week too (at like 5pm or 6pm or something?) so by the time I'd got the train back home from work it was already closed. I had to get up early every Satu…

Have you visited London recently? Particularly east. It's got the unfriendliness but also complete total breakdown of the social contract and social decency

Music and video calls without headphones on all transport all the time. Shoes and socks off on train seats. Zombies barging into you constantly. Nobody letting people off the train.

Throwing rubbish on the ground. Leaving it on trains and buses.

Vaping on the tube

Pushing through the barriers at stations is normalised

Everyone does whatever the hell they like everywhere all the time. Constant antisocial behaviour. It's hell. An absolute epicenter of selfishness

I dream of a rule based society like Germany or UK of years ago

Edit: am a Brit but wouldn't live in London for love nor money. Obviously a lot of those issues aren't just in London. This isn't "foreigner repeating right wing talking points" people love trying here

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#96
post #49
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Germany 15 years ago from Scandinavia. Integrating here is really tough. The bureaucratic systems are very opaque and small mistakes in paperwork can cause a lot of problems...

And the problem is that they might not be YOUR mistakes, but mistakes from someone in the government office... ask me how I know about it...

How do you know about it? :)

Here in DK we have a law with my family name in it .. which the fuckers spelled wrong. I asked them to correct it but they refused. This is the story about how I became a citizen.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the biggest factor. Ambitious people who want to become rich do not have any opportunities in Germany. It is good for people who are content with a middling but comfortable life. That's why most ambitious people leave.

This is not a bad thing. Wealth inequality is destructive for societies.

And you believe Germany somehow avoided it? Nice one.

Don't worry, wealthy people manage fine in Germany and multiply their capital.

It's just a glass ceiling on a middle class.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#98
This reminds me that I got fired from a German company (operating in DK) because I asked too many questions and would not stop complaining about the software architecture which was terrible.

The company culture was clashing with the Danish culture that I was used to and also I didn't give a fuck.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#99

I migrated to Germany 10+ years ago and I'm still here. Based on my limited experience, there are two big issues. First, things are bad : trains are getting worse every year, the highways are in disrepair (ask me about Bonn!), overloaded doctors, impossibly slow bureaucracy, economic crisis, growing inequality, housing crisis, and so on. If you're a fresh immigrant who cannot find a job in an economic crisis (aka "mo…

The issues you see now in Germany are the direct consequence of the Merkel era conservative government and its austerity policy. They really wanted to get the deficit down at all cost. And all cost included any sort of needed maintenance on public infrastructure.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#100

I've been here for a decade, and sadly I feel the issue is upward mobility for skilled workers. Unless you're working for an intl company, with ex-pats in positions of leadership, your chances of "getting ahead" are going to be limited, especially when you're competing against natives. The reason is sadly, the culture is very reserved and cautious, so as an "outsider" it's going to take A LONG time before you can be…

Just to add, the experience can be quite different between Bundesland (for example the tech culture in Berlin can be really decent IMHO). And the Bewerbungsfoto is technically not allowed to be required (but often expected in practice, though I personally don’t remember sending one).

Overall that comment sounds quite true based on my experience. I had a way better time contracting for foreign companies from Germany

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