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Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#71
I am the son of a (Cuban) immigrant and a German woman. Once, the police asked me if I spoke German, probably because my hair is dark and my eyes are brown. Germany has a bias against “southerners”—the darker your skin, the worse it is. If your skin is light and your eyes are light-colored, you won’t even be perceived as an immigrant as long as you keep your mouth shut. But if you look southern or Asian, you’ll always be a “Kanake” or “Fitschi,” even if in every other respect you’re more German than most Germans.

Racism here isn’t so severe that it leaves you with bruises, but you notice it in the little things. For example, this year I was looking for a new apartment with my partner, and when I first made contact, I used her German last name instead of my foreign one—just to be on the safe side. Whenever I do have to deal with the police—for example, because of a traffic accident or something similar—it seems like who gets blamed depends on skin color. If some guy named Hans Müller cuts me off, the police are still on his side. If I cut off someone named Achmed, strangely enough, they’re on my side. The last startup I worked for as a developer really played up its left-liberal, progressive image. Even so, the bosses were blond and blue-eyed, and the janitors were Black Africans. I could fill an entire book with impressions like these.

All the bureaucratic hurdles mentioned in the article are probably intentional. The aim is to make it difficult for foreigners to come here and stay, because these people are not wanted here. In recent years, even politicians deep within the left-liberal spectrum have touted the fact that the so-called migration problem has been brought under control. In other words, they have adopted the right-wing premise that migration itself is a problem, rather than the way migrants are treated and integrated.

The tragedy is that we’re running out of people of working age. We’re having too few children and are turning into an aging society. Over the next twenty years, this will hit us like a bus driving toward a cliff, while none of the passengers see the impending disaster. Immigration could be our salvation, but we just don’t want brown people.

At the same time, German society is tearing itself apart through policies that lack solidarity. Life is meant to be made as difficult and harsh as possible for people with average incomes. The last remnants of the welfare state are being gradually dismantled over successive legislative terms. Everything is being ruined by austerity measures. There is no longer any awareness that collective investments in education and public infrastructure are, in fact, investments that will yield a real return later on—for example, in the form of well-educated people, transportation networks that allow goods to be transported smoothly, or nationwide internet access when you need it. Instead, everything must be milked dry by the private sector, or it’s simply left to rot (or both).

Another comment here mentions that sclerotic forces are at work in Germany. I think that’s an apt description. It frustrates me immensely that society can’t pull itself together to take bold steps toward shaping a positive future. Instead, we have to watch as the country slowly withers away, while one idiot after another takes the reins of government to orchestrate the next round of bloodletting.

It's gotten to the point where I've now lost faith in democracy. Things aren't getting better—they're just getting worse and worse. And all I can do is try to position myself in my personal life in such a way that I can hopefully protect myself and a few people around me from the worst damage caused by this decline.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#72
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Physiognomic appearance does not equate with genetically discrete populations, so while we can obviously visually identify that people have broadly asian, african, european, polynesian dissent etc; this doesn't equate with other factors stereotypically associated with those 'races'. Race is a folk taxonomy. Ethnicity and genetics are complex - like most things when you make more than a cursory investigation. So while…

> Physiognomic appearance does not equate with genetically discrete populations

The idea that race affects EXACTLY things that appear on the surface and nothing else is laughable. You need mountains of layers of cognitive dissonance to believe this. For example: different races are susceptible to different diseases. Instead of hitting tackling racism properly, you are putting fingers in your ears and shouting that race itself doesn't exist. Do you really think you can beat racism like this?

Ref your studies: You are doing the Jimmy Neutron Sodium Chloride meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScCErU2742g

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#73
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Race != Race. Race as a social construct exists but biologically speaking there is no such thing. In the US the term "race" always refers to the social construct. The german word "Rasse" did not undergo that same change in meaning. Even the most extreme right wing in Germany, the most openly racist people you can find would not dare to use that word in this manner in public. This is far more offensive than using the…

> Race as a social construct exists but biologically speaking there is no such thing

Mountains of layers of cognitive dissonance are needed to believe this. Race is absolutely biological. To think otherwise is fooling oneself. You are doing a disservice to combating racism by negating the existence of race itself. Do you really think racism will just go away by suggesting black people and white people are exactly the same internally? Get real man.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Race theory was always pseudoscience to imply the generalized differences between people who looked differently were genetic and thus inherent traits. It's an extension of a much older, more insidious idea - blood purity. There are still people who would pretend to trace their own lineage back through every scholar, king, and prophet to Adam, while choosing to believe that everyone else is a mongrel line, inferior an…

Way to mix completely different things. Its like saying: Gender exists hence men are better. No one suggests this kinda thing.

Race is not pseudo science. Race is real. White people are meaningfully different from Black people. Its not bad to be different. It doesn't mean one is different from the other. You can't beat racism by claiming race itself is not real!

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#75
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think what its trying to say is race as a defined biological categorisation Proof? What do you think the people were asked in the survey? Normal people use race in the normal way. I think white people exist. I think black people exist. Everyone knows this - I don't need any academic to prove me wrong. And I don't think it makes me racist when some one asks me "are there different human races" and I answer "yes".

Sorry, but most Europeans don't use the term anymore since the Nazis tried to impose a catastrophic societal order based on their race ideology. White people were only white if they could show bloodlines reaching back generations. One jewish great-grandfather would make you intelligible for the Arian race. They would laugh at your notion of white vs black.

[dead]

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#76

I've been here for a decade, and sadly I feel the issue is upward mobility for skilled workers. Unless you're working for an intl company, with ex-pats in positions of leadership, your chances of "getting ahead" are going to be limited, especially when you're competing against natives. The reason is sadly, the culture is very reserved and cautious, so as an "outsider" it's going to take A LONG time before you can be…

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Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#77
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Races don't exist on any biological level. Racists evidently do. Believing in the false construct of biological race doesn't necessarily make you a racist; it doesn't really even seem to be a precondition anymore. But it was the foundation for sociopolitical racism, so if the concept of race guides your thinking about people's characteristics, especially their non-physical characteristics, you are at least somewhat i…

> Races don't exist on any biological level

Races exist at the biological level. I'm surprised this is even contested. IDK what makes you think white person is different from a black person? Is it vibes? Even a kid knows that a white person has different DNA.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#78
post #9

Why would anyone wanna go to a country that pays them low abuses them and they end up alone with no friends because this is Germany.

> and they end up alone with no friends This sounds like a personal issue. Is Germany at fault here?

> pays them low abuses them

Sounds more like systemic prejudice than "OP lacks social skills".

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#79
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Races don't exist on any biological level. Racists evidently do. Believing in the false construct of biological race doesn't necessarily make you a racist; it doesn't really even seem to be a precondition anymore. But it was the foundation for sociopolitical racism, so if the concept of race guides your thinking about people's characteristics, especially their non-physical characteristics, you are at least somewhat i…

> Races don't exist on any biological level Races exist at the biological level. I'm surprised this is even contested. IDK what makes you think white person is different from a black person? Is it vibes? Even a kid knows that a white person has different DNA.

Black and white are not races. They are racial discrimination categories. People with black skin are not one identifiable group except "black skin". Which is a heritable trait that affects pigmentation used to create a social discrimination category. It does not make a single meaningfully identifiable group in any other sense. (It's not even consistently the same trait, on a biological level)

You are talking about sociopolitical race discrimination and suggesting it has absolute, immutable biological mappings. It does not. This actually is quite close to real racism.

Re: Why skilled workers come to Germany and then leave again

#80
post #45
post #31

I think there is also a chicken-egg problem in almost every country that doesn't use English as official language: If you are not an engineer you must have an almost excellent level of local language --> an excellent level of a language is only possible if you are immersed daily over a long time and have the time to study --> to live there you need a job --> back to start Different counties have different tolerances…

In Germany, if you are an non-software Engineer, you MUST have an excellent level of the language. I have not seen a single Engineering position that doesn't require C1.

I know some electronic and mech engineers with no german skills, but it's always in young startup in major cities.
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