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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#171

Post by RossBencina »

an0malous wrote: post #131
throwaway27448 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have more meanings than ever.... but last century produced wittgenstein; perfectly clear communication was always a polite fiction.

> Words have more meanings than ever Right, that's the problem > but last century produced wittgenstein; I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years. It has more to do with the Internet and the cultural forces driving people to use hyperbole or make things up to make money in the attention market. This article wouldn't be on HN if it was just abou…

> I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years.

The phenomenon is not restricted to this century. Orwell's book published in 1949 includes many prescient examples. Witgenstein's contribution, at a minimum, is that he named the paradigm, thus raising awareness, and perhaps leading to an increase in intentional engagement with these practices.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#172

Post by bluescrn »

jnovek wrote: post #20
caseysoftware wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"libraries and educators to forgo specific books" is neither "banning" nor "censoring" In the name of literacy, we need to use words properly.

It is censorship if those books are not included for a specific reason. “We aren’t including this book in the library because we don’t have space for every book.” “We aren’t including this book because we don’t think it’s appropriate for kids to learn about trans people.” <—- censorship

> “We aren’t including this book because we don’t think it’s appropriate for kids to learn about trans people.” Removing books from public libraries (not just schools) because we find criticism of certain ideas around gender to be offensive https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-66441947

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#173

Post by GuB-42 »

caseysoftware wrote: post #66
adolph wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes more sense. How could a library or a bookshop in a location legally offer books that are banned in that location?

THAT would be awesome bravery and freedom: "Come and take it" has been powerful before.

I don't know the law in Portugal but I will assume the principles are similar to other western European countries.

If you have book that are actually banned in these countries, I don't think many people will call it awesome.

Books are typically banned for:

- copyright: not really a ban, but the copyright holder simply doesn't want it to be published the way you want it to be, doing it anyway is just piracy. It can be seen as "brave" if the copyright owner is an asshole, but doing that to authors you support is not great.

- hate speech: Germany for instance bans most Nazi stuff, whether or not it is a good thing is debatable, but in any case, what do you think the political message would be if you opened a Nazi library. Most other European countries have similar laws to some degree.

- porn: Need I say more? Special mention to child porn, which is super-banned, and definitely not awesome.

- libel: some people hide behind defamation laws to avoid criticism, but in most cases, these are actual lies and you don't want that.

I don't know of any banned book in Europe that anyone "woke" (for a lack of a better term) would want to put forward.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#175

Post by [deleted] »

mossTechnician wrote: post #133
glimshe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've banned a number of books from my household as I don't want my child exposed to them. And I support banning them from the school. Children aren't adults. It's reasonable to expect that education caters to a common denominator within society. I would only have a problem if adults couldn't acquire these books.

Can you list some of these books you want removed from school libraries, along with why?

[deleted]

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#176

Post by jpfromlondon »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #163
an0malous wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Words have more meanings than ever Right, that's the problem > but last century produced wittgenstein; I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years. It has more to do with the Internet and the cultural forces driving people to use hyperbole or make things up to make money in the attention market. This article wouldn't be on HN if it was just abou…

> Right, that's the problem Is it a problem? I think it allows greater flexibility for humor and subtext than ever. It's the people who insist on contextualess interpretation that rain on the parade. > it's ok to call books "banned" even if they're not First of all, of course it's ok. Nobody is getting hurt. Second, the books are banned—just not where the bookstore is. I'm not sure how anyone could struggle to unders…

>I think it allows greater flexibility for humor and subtext than ever.

It has more ambiguity because we had many similar words for similar things that are differential in some minor way.

Now everything can mean anything, it is leaning more expressive with less precision, English's best quality is that it balances the precise and the expressive, the craft is gone and if you misunderstand what I've written because I've used the wrong words that's your fault.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#177

Post by GeoAtreides »

smallerize wrote: post #101
caseysoftware wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

THAT would be awesome bravery and freedom: "Come and take it" has been powerful before.

The first "Molon labe" famously did not go well.

oh, i would say it went quite well:

>The main source for the events of the battle is Herodotus. According to his account, the Spartans held Thermopylae for three days, and although ultimately defeated, they inflicted serious damage on the Persian army. Most importantly, this delayed the Persians' progress to Athens, providing sufficient time for the city's evacuation to the island of Salamis.

>Though a tactical defeat, Thermopylae served as a strategic and moral victory, inspiring the Greek forces to defeat the Persians at the Battle of Salamis later the same year and the Battle of Plataea one year later.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molon_labe

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#178

Post by carodgers »

Only two books are explicitly listed by the article, neither of which have been banned anywhere.

Unsubsidized is the more accurate word here. Some governments have chosen not to pay public money to stock these books in libraries, but no government has created criminal penalties for ownership.

It may be the case that her library includes some books that genuinely carry criminal penalties, but the article does not provide enough info to assess that.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#179

Post by carodgers »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #52

Dua Lipa opens, in Portugal, a library for books that are banned and censored (elsewhere).

This is wrong, given only the text of the article. The two books explicitly listed are not banned in Portugal or anywhere else. They are simply not subsidized with public money in some libraries.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#180

Post by carlosjobim »

mossTechnician wrote: post #140
Aurornis wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “banned books” theme has become intentionally vague because it has become a marketing tool. That’s how we got to Dua Lipa doing a promotional photo op holding up books that can be purchased on Amazon and delivered to your Kindle to read immediately. Attaching the “banned” word to a book turns the purchase into an act of rebellion and a reason to talk about it, and the marketers are not going to waste that opportu…

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

The effective difference is of course that they could easily get that book from somewhere else if they want it.

If I'm prevented from bringing my dog into a restaurant, that doesn't mean that dogs are banned. It means I have to go to the restaurant on the other side of the street.

If McDonald's doesn't serve any hard liquor it doesn't mean that alcohol has been banned in the country.

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