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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

euronews.com

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#131

Post by an0malous »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #95
an0malous wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I miss the days when words still had meaning

Words have more meanings than ever.... but last century produced wittgenstein; perfectly clear communication was always a polite fiction.

> Words have more meanings than ever

Right, that's the problem

> but last century produced wittgenstein;

I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years. It has more to do with the Internet and the cultural forces driving people to use hyperbole or make things up to make money in the attention market. This article wouldn't be on HN if it was just about Dua Lipa starting a bookstore, they added "banned" so it would catch peoples attention even if that's basically a lie.

> perfectly clear communication was always a polite fiction.

The comment I replied to is trying to argue that it's ok to call books "banned" even if they're not banned, because it's like the term "cancelled" which at one point meant someone whose content was actually cancelled but I guess they're suggesting it doesn't mean that anymore either.

I'm not arguing that words should have perfect meanings, that is obviously a strawman, but this article and comment thread are using words to mean the complete opposite of their common meaning.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#132

Post by Aurornis »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

The “banned books” theme has become intentionally vague because it has become a marketing tool.

That’s how we got to Dua Lipa doing a promotional photo op holding up books that can be purchased on Amazon and delivered to your Kindle to read immediately. Attaching the “banned” word to a book turns the purchase into an act of rebellion and a reason to talk about it, and the marketers are not going to waste that opportunity.

That’s why the “banned books” category has been expanded so much to include not only books that governments or corporations have tried to suppress, but also books that some school board in Kansas decided shouldn’t be included in the elementary school library.

Unfortunately once a term becomes this overloaded it loses meaning. The original topics of government censorship and oppression get less attention because it’s drowned out by pop stars holding up Margaret Atwood books for photo ops and people buying books on Amazon as a form of slacktivism.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#133

Post by mossTechnician »

glimshe wrote: post #122
pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

I've banned a number of books from my household as I don't want my child exposed to them. And I support banning them from the school. Children aren't adults. It's reasonable to expect that education caters to a common denominator within society. I would only have a problem if adults couldn't acquire these books.

Can you list some of these books you want removed from school libraries, along with why?

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#135

Post by BJones12 »

mossTechnician wrote: post #133
glimshe wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've banned a number of books from my household as I don't want my child exposed to them. And I support banning them from the school. Children aren't adults. It's reasonable to expect that education caters to a common denominator within society. I would only have a problem if adults couldn't acquire these books.

Can you list some of these books you want removed from school libraries, along with why?

Mein Kampf?

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#136

Post by the_af »

like_any_other wrote: post #105
nottorp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the book instead of watching "influencers" you'd notice it's explicitly about a Christian theocracy, but whatever.

Yes, it's "about a Christian theocracy" in the sense of "what if a Christian theocracy behaved exactly like an Islamic one". "Atwood was also inspired by the Islamic revolution in Iran in 1978–79 that saw a theocracy established that drastically reduced the rights of women and imposed a strict dress code on Iranian women, very much like that of Gilead." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale#Composit..…

Nope. A Christian theocracy of Puritan values.

From Atwood herself (https://lithub.com/margaret-atwood-on-how-she-came-to-write-...)

"The deep foundation of the United States—so went my thinking—was not the comparatively recent 18th-century Enlightenment structures of the Republic, with their talk of equality and their separation of Church and State, but the heavy-handed theocracy of 17th-century Puritan New England—with its marked bias against women—which would need only the opportunity of a period of social chaos to reassert itself."

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#137

Post by frumplestlatz »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

Declining to buy and stock a book in a school library is not a ban at all.

The book can still be printed, bought, and read. It can be brought into that same school, and read there. It’s not banned.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#138

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

heisgone wrote: post #107
nottorp wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the book instead of watching "influencers" you'd notice it's explicitly about a Christian theocracy, but whatever.

Atwood is on record saying the inspiration is Iran 79's Islamic revolution.

Atwood is on record as saying that everything that happens in The Handmaid's Tale has happened somewhere in the world within the 50-100 years that preceded her writing it. While Iran may have been an inspiration, it was not the inspiration, and she has many times spoken of things that have taken place in the USA and found their way into the book.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#139

Post by daakni »

teh64 wrote: post #62

I find this video that looks at Dua Lipa and her love of books great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN1rULxGHCA

Came straight to my mind as well. Thanks for sharing. Her music is not my cup a tea but her interest in books seems absolutely genuine.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#140

Post by mossTechnician »

Aurornis wrote: post #132
pfannkuchen wrote: post #116

Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…

The “banned books” theme has become intentionally vague because it has become a marketing tool. That’s how we got to Dua Lipa doing a promotional photo op holding up books that can be purchased on Amazon and delivered to your Kindle to read immediately. Attaching the “banned” word to a book turns the purchase into an act of rebellion and a reason to talk about it, and the marketers are not going to waste that opportu…

Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one?

[0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...

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