Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mein Kampf?
No, make it part of the curriculum. Read it and shown how boring and stupid it is. Demystify such nonsense
The irony of Mein Kampf suffering the streisand effect is not lost.
Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
161–170 of 284 posts
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...
We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…
I don't understand the scare quotes: per my previous reply, is a ban not a ban regardless of who does it? Maus has nudity and curse words; that's why it was banned in Tennessee. 1984 has multiple sex scenes - the well-funded Christian publication PluggedIn[0] rates it 18+.
Two things can be true at the same time: a book can be both banned in one place, and used to promote someone's brand in another. Somebody in a deeply repressive and abusive home will not have a better or worse life if Dua Lipa did not exist.
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Words have more meanings than ever.... but last century produced wittgenstein; perfectly clear communication was always a polite fiction.
> Words have more meanings than ever Right, that's the problem > but last century produced wittgenstein; I don't think a philosopher who died 80 years ago is driving the change in how words are used in the last 20 years. It has more to do with the Internet and the cultural forces driving people to use hyperbole or make things up to make money in the attention market. This article wouldn't be on HN if it was just abou…
> Right, that's the problem
Is it a problem? I think it allows greater flexibility for humor and subtext than ever. It's the people who insist on contextualess interpretation that rain on the parade.
> it's ok to call books "banned" even if they're not
First of all, of course it's ok. Nobody is getting hurt. Second, the books are banned—just not where the bookstore is. I'm not sure how anyone could struggle to understand this. Anyway, what book is banned everywhere? Has any book in history really been banned to such an extent? Or do you really think Dua Lipa would be investing in a bookstore that would immediately be shut down? Being upset at this just seems like a waste of energy.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that for the most part it's the people who do believe in canonical definitions that get hurt by thinking they communicate clearly, by allowing others who do have a more flexible understanding of semantics undermine and fool them. We should teach words as polysemous by default so as to ensure they're able to function in the modern world. Hell, a great deal of wordplay can only be enjoyed if you're able to hold multiple definitions in your head at once.
For instance, "literally" notoriously connotes "figuratively".... sometimes. This is actually quite an old phenomenon that well predates the internet. But it allows ironic commentary on the speaker's perspectives that forces the audience to interpret the phrase in a broader context.
There is certainly a role for formal, unambiguous speech—in technical communication, in legal briefs, in analysis more generally—but it's not hard to see why people enjoy straying far beyond that in service of fluid, natural, and concise communication.
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#164A venture that gathers objects of subversion likely to draw the ire of authoritarian powers into a single building doesn’t strike me as something likely to peacefully exist for long.
... I mean, it's in Portugal. Are you expecting Russia or a Florida school board or whatever to bomb it?
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you were to make a list of banned books, yes, it would be fine to include Hustler magazine, as it was (and remains) banned in many places (and because of its historical significance in the fight against censorship).
I can pick one up at the corner store or order it online but its not allowed to sit in the libraries of US elementary schools so would you consider it to still be banned in the US?
No, I would not consider it to be "banned in the US".
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I didn't mention the show, isn't this thread and article about books? > It was a thinly veiled world-building exercise on the subjection of women in Islam… then it ends. Nothing really happens. The Handmaid's Tale wasn't about Islam but about religious Christian fundamentalism and, by Atwood's own words, an extrapolation of trends she saw in the US. It's a good book, it seems contentious to list it as a "bad book" as…
[flagged]
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Banning a book in a school district still signifies a form of authoritarianism. If someone is prevented from reading Maus[0] (or finding out they are in a cult, or a victim of domestic abuse), what is the effective difference to them between an authoritarian censoring it at the national level or the local one? [0]: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/holocaust-novel-maus-banne...
We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…
> We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies.
And no one really pretended that these cases were cases of "banned books".
The problem is when authority bodies (school, government, ...) start to include, in these "normal non-appropriate" books other books not because they have bad societal consequences when the reader is not mature enough, but because they don't like the content for ideological reasons.
I think it would be a very bad faith argument to argue that reading Maus will lead to people less socially adjusted.
And, sure, some "banned" books may be inappropriate. But as soon as these authorities have open the doors to arbitrary banning books, they poisoned their own well: maybe under "normal" evaluation this book should be removed from the list, but they removed it "the bad way", they failed the process, and therefore the ban itself is illegitimate.
It's a bit like the procedural miscarriage of justice: if you mess up when arresting someone, they can be freed even if it turns out they were guilty. Or in a more topical subject: the Fifa can reverse some decision, but if they do it in the context where they received phone calls from the US president, then it's a big failure in the process, even if a "normal" re-evaluation should indeed have concluded to reversing the decision.
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would happen if a child brought those not-banned or not-censored books to a library/school where they have "forgo those specific books"? What would the reaction be? I feel like if they'd still let the person read the book by themselves, and freely share it with others, then indeed it's merely a curation choice. But, if I'd expect, they try to prevent this person from reading their own brought book or sharing it…
What if someone brought a porno to blockbuster?
How is that at all related or relevant to anything I wrote?
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was referencing a direct quote from the author, looks like the Booker Prize board actually looked into it and disputes the certainty of the claim. Oh well. However: 1. Regime change doesn't happen instantaneously. The Francoist line of thinking was still pervasive after Franco died, and through the 70s there was a waxing and waning of censorship. 2. The book was still restricted in multiple states, the spirit of my…
The spirit of incorrectness
Instead of replying in kind, I will benevolently nudge you to review the Hacker News comment guidelines. I don't think any of us want this site to fall to lower standards of other social media platforms.
Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal
#170Whenever the topic of “banned books” comes up, a bunch of people argue about whether they should be called “banned”. What I haven’t seen mentioned in these discussions is where the mental association of “banned books” comes from. In America, at least, the school curriculum spends a lot of time talking about dictators. It mentions, numerous times over many years of a child’s life, that something dictators often do is…
Is it useful to limit these thoughts to a dictator doing dictator stuff, though? What would be the material difference be between that and operatives of his political party astroturfing local school boards to remove books that teach about the racial history of the country or the existance of trans folk, to make it appear as though the local community decided to do it?