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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#191

Post by Hikikomori »

weberer wrote: post #101
pjerem wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is wh…

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

You can just buy plastic that you attach to the frame around the window with a hole for the hose. Its reasonable air tight, but we typically get air from outside for ventilation anyway.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#192

Post by BeetleB »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #122
Levitz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it? Because it's an important matter regarding immigration. If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining? >Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional re…

Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional. Do you think the USA makes it easy to become a citizen? Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Acting like the bar for living somewhere is citizenship is nuts. > Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the…

> Do you think the USA makes it easy to become a citizen?

Just because there are plenty of countries that make it easier to become a citizen doesn't mean there aren't plenty of countries that make it worse.

People going the H-1/O-1 route in a STEM field with an MS degree don't have a hard time becoming a citizen, unless they're Indian (and a little bit if Chinese). Literally everyone I know from my university and work days who went that route got it. A few got audited along the way, which added 1-2 years to the process, but they all still got it.

Now compare that with many friends of mine who left the US for ideological reasons and moved to countries where ... they have no hope for permanent residency, let alone citizenship. I just recently visited one of them - he has been in that country for 18 years, and is about to be kicked out because the economy is poor and they likely won't renew his residency status. For all those years, he never had a path to permanent residency (without paying a huge amount of money).

Another is a faculty member at a good university in the country he's in. He's surrounded by people who've spent their whole careers at that university and are now wondering where they'll move to post-retirement.

Yet another has spent almost two decades in a third country. He likes it, but admits the pressure to never lose a job and always find a stable one so he doesn't get kicked out does get to him sometimes.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#193

Post by BeetleB »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #156
Levitz wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived abroad, yes. Does the USA make it easy to become a citizen? If the comparison is China, yes, a thousand times yes. Does language and society matter a truckload? Absolutely. >Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Yes. Does China treat immigrants better than the US? As I explained, no. There is no…

You clearly have a certain cultural fixation with immigration that frankly is pretty narrow and seems of a particular American variety. How is the condition of foreign workers not a question of immigration? What distinction are you making? Is your logic the United States treats immigrants well because any foreign national treated under a subpar regime you get to reclassify as a "foreign worker"? You know not all "for…

Not the person you're responding to, but I've spent almost 2 decades outside the US.

Sorry, his perspective matches my experience much more than yours.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#194

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #156
Levitz wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived abroad, yes. Does the USA make it easy to become a citizen? If the comparison is China, yes, a thousand times yes. Does language and society matter a truckload? Absolutely. >Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Yes. Does China treat immigrants better than the US? As I explained, no. There is no…

You clearly have a certain cultural fixation with immigration that frankly is pretty narrow and seems of a particular American variety. How is the condition of foreign workers not a question of immigration? What distinction are you making? Is your logic the United States treats immigrants well because any foreign national treated under a subpar regime you get to reclassify as a "foreign worker"? You know not all "for…

>The reaffirmation of the 14th amendment is not exactly impressive. Quite a low bar you've reached for there.

Can you name a single country in the EU which offers birthright citizenship? Any country in Asia?

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#195

Post by BeetleB »

pjerem wrote: post #107
weberer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to. My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort. Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually…

> You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#197

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

BeetleB wrote: post #193
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have a certain cultural fixation with immigration that frankly is pretty narrow and seems of a particular American variety. How is the condition of foreign workers not a question of immigration? What distinction are you making? Is your logic the United States treats immigrants well because any foreign national treated under a subpar regime you get to reclassify as a "foreign worker"? You know not all "for…

Not the person you're responding to, but I've spent almost 2 decades outside the US. Sorry, his perspective matches my experience much more than yours.

Why would you apologize for that? Name one claim I've made that is impeached by your "experience"?

Doubtless many others have shared your experiences. Good for you. It's not really the point. My questions as to the OP I was responding to of a personal nature were quite obviously rhetorical. The point was to perhaps suggest some introspection. Not everyone's experiences are the same.

The more substantive questions have still not been answered. Oh well, I'm not owed anything.

But the fact you doubled down with a "me too" shows you also missed the point. I can supply you with people who have the opposite experience. Will you suddenly have a different view?

How have you spent two decades out of the US and found yourself so self assured? In your two decades did you not come across thousands with different experiences than you? Why would this give you such a high opinion of your own?

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#198

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #194
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly have a certain cultural fixation with immigration that frankly is pretty narrow and seems of a particular American variety. How is the condition of foreign workers not a question of immigration? What distinction are you making? Is your logic the United States treats immigrants well because any foreign national treated under a subpar regime you get to reclassify as a "foreign worker"? You know not all "for…

>The reaffirmation of the 14th amendment is not exactly impressive. Quite a low bar you've reached for there. Can you name a single country in the EU which offers birthright citizenship? Any country in Asia?

Sort of a silly question. Can you name a single country like the US? Have you read your own history?

I said the reaffirmation was not impressive, not the amendment or the nature of said citizenship itself. The fact it had to be reaffirmed is not impressive. The OP I replied to already acknowledged this. Please read more carefully next time. Or if you think the reaffirmation was itself impressive, please just say so.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#199

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

coldtea wrote: post #135
John23832 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers. Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another. China is the opposite of that. You are hard hammered into th…

> No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers. Human change can be subject to the law of large numbers, but nothing necessitates any particular change being towards progress. > Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American…

>The American melting pot works well (or worked well) because it was a nation made up from a blank canvas with no prior historically established dominant ethnicity

That's a bit of an oversimplification. They were British colonies for well over 100 years before declaring independence. The US Census website states:

"Not surprisingly, the first census reported that based on the names of heads of families, more than 90% of the White population in 1790 hailed from British stock: English (83.5%), Scottish (6.7%) and Irish (1.6%)."

https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/12/boston-tea-pa...

>And even at that was built on first disenfranchizing (to put it midly) the natives.

Not many European colonial powers purchased land from natives the way the US did. For example, considering the Louisiana Purchase area, the US paid over 20x as much to natives living in that area as the US paid to France:

https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/201...

The US looks bad compared with a hypothetical (nonexistent) perfect country. But compared with European powers, it looks pretty good.

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