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Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

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Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#41

Post by wongarsu »

aaomidi wrote: post #32
nuka_coffee wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dictatorship has a dictator. Who doesn't know that?

TBH modern dictatorships are a lot less obvious in the way you describing. There are dictatorships, where a very select few people have absolute power, but there’s no visible dictator. Iran is a country like this. There’s no visible dictator. It’s a game of power between the clergy, the military, and the civil government.

Those are more like aristocracies or oligarchies than dictatorships though. Though maybe those are not the best descriptions of Iran either

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#42

Post by onraglanroad »

73738384 wrote: post #21
chrystalkey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have apparently no idea what an actual dictatorship is

The European Comission is the top decision maker of the EU. The European citizen has zero (0) influence on the members or actions of the EC. No different than the politburo in China.

Apart from the fact it can't make decisions.

It can only propose; the decision is made by the EU parliament.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#43

Post by raverbashing »

73738384 wrote: post #21
chrystalkey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have apparently no idea what an actual dictatorship is

The European Comission is the top decision maker of the EU. The European citizen has zero (0) influence on the members or actions of the EC. No different than the politburo in China.

> The European citizen has zero (0) influence on the members or actions of the EC

Whenever one reads EC you need to read: "All of the heads of state in a trenchcoat". Macron, Merz, etc

And yet this is an EP maneuver

And let's not forget on the American lobbyists pushing for it (Including Big Tech)

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#44

Post by khurs »

wongarsu wrote: post #25
khurs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of reasons the the EU exists is so domestic prime ministers can deflect blame and say "not me, it was them over there in the EU parliament and my hands are tied"

That's the British approach In Germany it's usually the other way around: the EU tries to force us to do objectively good things, while national and regional governments drag their feet implementing EU law or complying with regulations. We regularly have headlines about how we might have to pay fines to the EU, and every time it's for something where the EU seems clearly on the morally right side And all that despite…

"In Germany it's usually the other way around:"

Germany is one of most wealthy, powerful and biggest contributors to the EU budget. They can't be bullied round easily.

"We regularly have headlines about how we might have to pay fines to the EU"

The state controls the media... a lot of headlines are orchestrated. But it is done so well, unless you know, you don't know...

Where Germany doesn't agree, it has sway. Where Germany and France don't agree, it is unlikely, and where Germany, France and Italy don't agree it's not going to happen as some countries matter more than others.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#45

Post by mghackerlady »

osigurdson wrote: post #26
nekusar wrote: post #9

The cypherpunks were right. Rights to encryption are only a part of what we need. The other part is steganography, or hiding real messages within a innocuous anodyne message stream. And encryption can be used in conjunction as part of hiding said messages. It can be within pictures with the lowest bit values. It can be constructed punctuation and spaces. Lots of things. But hidden and plausibly deniable messaging is…

What I don't understand is, what kind of legitimate criminal would not use such techniques? Are bank robbers planning things out on iMessage? If so, presumably they won't be criminals for very long. Therefore these types of initiatives only impact the innocent and inept but still active criminals.

Security is the reason given to us since most of us are too trusting or dumb to look any further into it. It becomes clear security isn't what they're doing it for after giving it more than a few minutes of thought

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#46

Post by harrisoned »

pr337h4m wrote: post #20
harrisoned wrote: post #8

Even if you are not in the EU, this will affect you. Some countries really like to copy such regulations from others. Once services starts complying, other governments will go like "if you did for them, you can do it for us, right? so it's not technically impossible", and things only get worse from there. Not all services will simply block the EU as well, which would be better to send a stronger message if approved.…

Centralized messaging services won't last long, their capture is sadly inevitable. In the long run, only self-hosted/decentralized protocols can resist what's coming. In the meantime though, Signal specifically should not do something stupid like blocking the EU, which is basically surrender. They are a non-profit headquartered in the US, so there are zero business risks to non-compliance - nothing in the EU to fine…

> Centralized messaging services won't last long, their capture is sadly inevitable. In the long run, only self-hosted/decentralized protocols can resist what's coming.

Very much. I also fear they coming for this, we already have instances of where using secure alternatives tags you as a criminal[0], so i don't doubt a future where non-approved applications will get you in trouble. With everything happening around Android locking itself down[1] and Windows being a spyware[2] anybody who wants privacy will be 'different', and can be tagged and excluded from parts of society for not using the same services.

[0]: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1940440326830989549

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48801059

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48815196

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#47

Post by graemep »

aquir wrote: post #35

Hopefully this could be the first good thing about Brexit...this might not get implemented in the UK or there will be a delay!

> Hopefully this could be the first good thing about Brexit

Was having lots of people's lives saved by a much faster vaccine rollout not a good thing?

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#49

Post by miroljub »

chrystalkey wrote: post #15
miroljub wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have apparently no idea what an actual dictatorship is

I suppose you know?

Now go enlighten us on how the EU is super democratic and way better than the worst dictatorship that ever existed, so we may be happy we are not the worst.

Re: Chat Control passed first round in EU Parliament

#50

Post by iamnothere »

soco wrote: post #30
iamnothere wrote: post #2

From a post on Mastodon: > democracy is when you repeatedly push for unpopular laws until they pass, and the more times you do it the more democratic it is It is unlikely that 60 additional “no” votes can be found by Thursday to stop this.

So basically the people we elected will vote yes. How's that undemocratic? Because the majority doesn't vote the way I like it? I'm not even ironic, I truly don't understand those comments. You get what you voted for, garbage in garbage out.

All votes have a certain margin or fluctuation, as individual representatives can be pressured, swayed, or coerced by any number of means. If a vote fails over and over again then eventually passes under dubious circumstances (start of vacation when attention is elsewhere), that seems to be against the spirit of democratic rule. At least to me, but what do I know? Maybe everyone loves this outcome and all the prior rejections were just a fluke.
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