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Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

newscientist.com

21–30 of 63 posts

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#21

There is no reason I can’t put a swimming pool size battery under my house. I don’t care what the energy density is, make it bulletproof and cheap and massive.

Why under the house? It can sit under your yard, no need to bother with so many tons of construction concrete on top of it.

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#22
post #6
post #3

Really hoping this enables safer battery tech too. Lithium fires are scary

And gasoline fires and high speed collisions aren't? This is the bit of paranoia around EV deployment that I genuinely fail to understand. Personal vehicles are by far the most dangerous apparatus with which we interact, already. And we're fine with it! Have you ever, even once , called a Civic or Vespa "scary"? But put a battery in it suddenly they need new tech before you'll be comfortable?

Ask your local fire department about putting fires out in battery-powered cars versus gasoline cars. Yes, there is a qualitative difference and it's not in favor of the battery-powered cars.

That's not to say that it's a stopper for them; it's just part of the cost/benefits analysis. The idea of technologies that are better on all parts of the cost/benefit analysis at once is a science fiction or video game concept. In the real world there's always a mixture of positives and negatives between two different technologies.

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#23
post #19
post #2

note sodium-ion is no longer two or three times the weight of lithium-ion, there is only a +33% penalty apparently the problem is there is not yet enough volume in production to compete on price, which I thought was the whole point? > sodium-ion specs have improved to the point that the technology could break into the general EV market. A recent study by Moritz Schütte at Aachen University in Germany and his colleagu…

I do wonder if there will be a convergence between sodium-ion battery architectures and cheaper, renewable-powered desalination. Could industrial seawater mining be competitive as a sodium feedstock source?

I just realize we have heaps and heaps of seasalt sludge around desalinization units. Dirty sludge, but salty nevertheless, right there at the fingertips. Maybe some of it could be useful?

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#24

There is no reason I can’t put a swimming pool size battery under my house. I don’t care what the energy density is, make it bulletproof and cheap and massive.

For some reason I wouldn't exactly feel safe knowing there is a huge battery under my house that may combust at any moment.

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#25
post #21

There is no reason I can’t put a swimming pool size battery under my house. I don’t care what the energy density is, make it bulletproof and cheap and massive.

Why under the house? It can sit under your yard, no need to bother with so many tons of construction concrete on top of it.

Not everyone has a yard lol

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#26
post #2

note sodium-ion is no longer two or three times the weight of lithium-ion, there is only a +33% penalty apparently the problem is there is not yet enough volume in production to compete on price, which I thought was the whole point? > sodium-ion specs have improved to the point that the technology could break into the general EV market. A recent study by Moritz Schütte at Aachen University in Germany and his colleagu…

That's competing against LFP chemistry, so 33% penalty on a chemistry that itself has a penalty versus NMC.

My understanding about sodium though is that the performance in cold and heat is excellent. So even if you pay a penalty for weight, you can drop the thermal management, which saves quite a bit.

For grid storage, this chemistry will be a game changer. For vehicle, I think it has a ways to go before being preferred over LFP, but that's a guess.

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#28

There is no reason I can’t put a swimming pool size battery under my house. I don’t care what the energy density is, make it bulletproof and cheap and massive.

that might be a evolutionary step where you just pump in electrolyte under a housing into waterproof container and every 10 years just pump it out again for fresh electrolyte

doesn't burn like LiFePo4 so no fire risks, though I am not sure what a short-circuit would do in damage/danger

why even under a structure though, just do it like a septic tank?

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#29

It is time to standardize EV batteries like wheels: 5-10 mainstream types & competition on quality vs. price vs. range. Regulator help is needed here.

Regulations... in THIS economy and administration????

Well, the EU regulated USB-C and it affected the whole smartphones world.

Re: Sodium-ion "salt" batteries will revolutionize electric-vehicle and grid storage

#30

There is no reason I can’t put a swimming pool size battery under my house. I don’t care what the energy density is, make it bulletproof and cheap and massive.

"There's no reason" just "make it safe and cheap in huge size".

Kind of like there's no reason we can't go to Mars for tourism. Just make it as convenient, safe, and cheap as a jet to London.

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