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Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

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Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#151

Post by andsoitis »

wolvoleo wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the…

> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.

I think the truth is somewhere inbetween the extremes. My understanding is that while air conditioning is not legally banned in Europe, its usage and installation are heavily restricted. Strict building codes, energy-saving laws, and local aesthetic regulations in historic districts often make acquiring or running an AC unit highly complicated.

So the talking point is about red tape.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#152

Post by ginko »

weberer wrote: post #101
pjerem wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is lacking AC because we never had to deal with 30°C at night before the last 5-10 years. And for the regions where we needed to (like, around the Mediterranean), guess what, AC is everywhere there. You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered. It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is wh…

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install…

Sliding windows are terrible though. Why would you want those?

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#153

Post by neonstatic »

wolvoleo wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the…

> The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point.

No, it isn't. It's appalling, that a Philippino riverside shack that's on the verge of falling apart has functioning A/C while a high end home in pick-a-European-country does not. It's a cultural thing. Even now during a brutal heatwave, when I mention to friends in Europe, that things would be better if they had aircon at home, they start talking about planting trees and other "measures". Sometimes I wonder if they know how long does it take for a tree to grow.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#154

Post by pavel_lishin »

mnky9800n wrote: post #146

I apologise if this is overly negative. It is based on my experience working as a soft money researcher (my own grants) at a Dutch university. My opinions may not be shared. In my experience The Netherlands is a rather unsupportive place to do research. There is essentially no money from the government that will pay salaries in full, especially early career salaries (vini, vidi, vici). I have had friends win ERC gran…

> It’s nice to live here but I’m leaving to go to greener pastures.

May I ask where you're looking? What countries have the best support for you to do your best work?

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#155

Post by handle584 »

pjc50 wrote: post #111
fakedang wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt many of the researchers migrating even want Chinese citizenship and the chains that come along with it, so why do most people (presumably Americans) keep harping on and on about it? Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors. You're allowed to take your family along wi…

If you don't have citizenship, you're just an expensive guest worker who can get kicked out at any time. (This is also true of Europeans in Dubai..)

Technically yes, but the ways US and China treat foreigners are at two extremes.

As long as you are invited and keep your mouth shut about ccp, China does not care about papers. One famous example is an athlete, when questioned about nationality after winning an Olympic gold medal for China, publicly claimed that I am Chinese when I am in China, and American when I am in the US.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#156

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

Levitz wrote: post #139
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever lived overseas? Honestly you sound delusional. Do you think the USA makes it easy to become a citizen? Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Acting like the bar for living somewhere is citizenship is nuts. > Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the…

I have lived abroad, yes. Does the USA make it easy to become a citizen? If the comparison is China, yes, a thousand times yes. Does language and society matter a truckload? Absolutely. >Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place. Yes. Does China treat immigrants better than the US? As I explained, no. There is no…

You clearly have a certain cultural fixation with immigration that frankly is pretty narrow and seems of a particular American variety.

How is the condition of foreign workers not a question of immigration? What distinction are you making? Is your logic the United States treats immigrants well because any foreign national treated under a subpar regime you get to reclassify as a "foreign worker"?

You know not all "foreign workers" are treated the same right? This applies to almost all countries. Plenty of people are happy to go to a place and work. Not everyone who goes to a place wants to or plans to become part of that culture. Or would expect to fully integrate. It is a balance. The reaffirmation of the 14th amendment is not exactly impressive. Quite a low bar you've reached for there.

Where did you live overseas? For how long? Did you consider it "immigration"? What were the terms of your status re work? Did you become a citizen?

I just don't really buy it. For someone who lived overseas the narrowness of your perspective is rather alarming.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#157

Post by amoshebb »

I could only find 4 names:

1 full prof at Vanderbilt with a real research program who has been listed as PI on a bunch of grants. "Top researcher" may be generous, but based on nothing I'd say reasonable description.

The other 3: 1 is a VU Amsterdam PhD who was on a Netherlands Government funded 24-month postdoc in Harvard who's been at VU Amsterdam since 2017. 1 is an adjunct (on leave) prof from Israel who has worked at a few german universities, most recently an Munster (doesn't qualify for the 30% rule). The last resigned over a year ago and has been contracting at a couple UK universities.

This seems less like "Top researchers leave USA" and more like "Typical Academic Bag Chasing"

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#158

Post by tialaramex »

losvedir wrote: post #67
John23832 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, total immigration matters. Human progress is always subject to the law large numbers. Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another. China is the opposite of that. You are hard hammered into th…

> American melting pot For what it's worth, this is the terminology I learned in school decades ago, but I don't think it's preferred anymore. My daughter has a book that calls it a "salad" instead (mixed but retaining their respective properties). I'm probably just old and crotchety but I like that way less.

Maybe. One thing to like about the "melting pot" analogy is that people from one culture exposed to a different dominant culture don't just retain their distinct character as if it was like the pieces of carrot in a salad, they are altered by this experience.

Chicken Tikka Masala didn't exist in India. And if you went to any British restaurant in 1900 they wouldn't serve this dish either. But in a British Indian restaurant today it's a staple because at some point (when and by who is debated) somebody in one of those restaurants was like "We should make a sauce to match local tastes" and it was created.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#159

Post by ux266478 »

wolvoleo wrote: post #99
dataflow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe's problems: [...] Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2] [1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave... [2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...

The finger-pointing by the US about lack of aircon in europe is just a stupid republican talking point. As everything that comes out of republicans these days it's misdirected and purely politically motivated. And it's none of their business anyway. They're just trying to stir up extreme-right sentiment here. Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the…

> is just a stupid republican talking point

> As everything that comes out of republicans

It's an old bit of banter that the world over has thrown at certain European countries (including other European countries). Giving American republicans custody of it because of an explosive penetration into the mainstream in the last few weeks is ridiculous.

I would highly recommend not legitimizing the American political system so readily.

Re: Top researchers leave USA for the Netherlands (in Dutch)

#160

Post by ecshafer »

dataflow wrote: post #116
ecshafer wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans aren't talking about it, people are making fun of Europe on X for their lack of AC, and how regulations are whats keeping them from having AC. This is coming from right wing Europeans . I think the parent is tilting at windmills.

That's literally what I heard from locals. I have no idea what 'wing' they were; they were just random locals I was asking about A/C. What I do know is everything I observed was consistent. Are you saying I should discredit all that based on an HN comment smearing them as "right-wing"?

I believe you dataflow. I am saying wolvoleo is tilting at windmills. Maybe a republican mentioned it, but it was a popular topic on X (formerly twitter). Which tends to cause a weird counter reaction on bluesky. Europeans are complaining about it, and then its causing this strange split where some are saying AC is racist/destroying the world, and others are saying AC is good and we need it and the european regulations keeping them from AC is bad.
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