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98% isn't much

whynothugo.nl

91–100 of 367 posts

Re: 98% isn't much

#91

In today's world of AI it's fairly easy to make your site compatible with every version of internet explorer ever. Just tell the AI to do it. It'll find a way. The maintenance burden for you will be minimal because the AI can keep the legacy compatibility bits in sync.

> Just tell the AI to do it

This is the new Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

Re: 98% isn't much

#92
post #8

I agree the general premise but do not agree when it comes to browser support. I feel like we should be building for the 98% or even 95% and force the remaining to upgrade their browsers. I've built for the IE6 - IE11 era for a painful and long time. I do not give a shit if you want to use a 3 year old browser at this point. Go look at a blank screen.

What you describe is not feasible in competitive mature markets like good part of e-commerce. As of 2024 at one of my clients we were still supporting IE8 and as of 2026 I still have significant traffic at some clients from IE9 and 11 or ancient firefox/chrome versions. The reason is quite simple when you analyze the data: it's concentrated between 8.30 and 5.30 pm. Those are people sitting at their desk in a bank or…

> I still have significant traffic at some clients from IE9

It's been 15 years since IE9. Where do you draw the line?

Re: 98% isn't much

#93

Covering for the 2% is often not a sound first order business decision. There's certainly higher order benefits. A lot of accessibility features are just plain useful for anyone. And I think companies like Apple generally get that it's a kind of loss leader. But this article makes dishonest TV Shopping Network style arguments like pointing at 150 million as if that was ever an addressable market. I think either you a…

I'd say you're the most correct of the bunch in this discussion. In the vast majority of business ventures the vast majority of your population is not going to be a customer, ever.

Look at statistics of things like apple vs android users and their purchase behaviors. Targeting the Apple users will likely bring in far more money in the end.

Also it's not your job as a company to ensure the user stays up to date and secure. Old devices are really just a risk these days.

Re: 98% isn't much

#94
> If a website uses fancy new browser features and works for 98% of the population, that means that it won’t work for ~150 million people.

Yes, because all of us have website serving, checks notes, the entire world...

98% is probably in the neighborhood of 8% more than I'd require for browsers compatibility before deciding to use a new feature. At a certain people need to update and we do ourselves and our other 98% of customers no favors by catering to the lowest common denominator.

See also, the story of YouTube adding a banner pushing people to upgrade off old IE version being a large factor in people upgrading. Now, obviously, we aren't all running YouTube-sized sites but building for ancient browsers is, very often, a large waste of time.

In the age of evergreen browsers you have to go out of your way to be using something that's not at most a couple years out of date.

Re: 98% isn't much

#95
post #60

This whole article is a categorical error. Whether something is good or not entirely depends on the frame of reference and the context. You can argue endlessly by shifting the topic that 98% is used on. I guess that's what people are doing here.

"Whether something is good or not entirely depends on the frame of reference and the context" is exactly what the article was saying....

Re: 98% isn't much

#96

I usually go by CanIUse's global percentage when deciding if I can utilize a new browser feature, and right now it's 90.81% ( https://caniuse.com/css-nesting ) That's a bit lower than I would be comfortable with, however not that bad, we have been even considering switching all our images to AVIF: https://caniuse.com/?search=AVIF And google uses Webp all over the place and that's sitting at 96% https://caniuse.com/we…

It's really easy to serve fallback images to browsers that don't support AVIF, either client-side using the tag or server-side via the Accept header. Which mostly eliminates the concern from the article, since you don't have to drop support for any customers.

It kind of makes me wonder if anyone has made a build system / framework that serves nested CSS to modern browsers, and falls back to a preprocessed CSS file that removes all the nesting for older browsers.

Re: 98% isn't much

#97
post #78

There are cases when providing service for remaining 2% isn't profitable. It's better just say "sorry". I used to work in company where we have spent a lot of time making custom fixes for our software in order to work-around wired hardware/software bugs on machines of individual customers. Yes, we provided service for remaining 2% or so, but in cost of slowing-down overall product development and not making our produ…

So how about also getting rid of all regulations for wheelchair friendly infrastructure while we are at it? Way too expensive and it is even less than 2% of the population that requires it.

Public infrastructure is different. It should work for everyone. My argument is more about commercial products with profitability kept in mind.

Re: 98% isn't much

#98
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infrastructure should not be (purely) profit driven. To improve profits for train operators, the simple option is to cut lines serving small and rural communities. The economics are much worse than serving large cities. Same for cell coverage and broadband internet. Most profitable is to just not cover a few percent of the population. There is a point where technology becomes foundational for participating in society…

> the simple option is to cut lines serving small and rural communities We don’t see this in practice to though. Three examples: 1. In the airline industry big airlines don’t go everywhere for this reasons but small local airlines fill the gap due to market opportunity. 2. Changes in technology enable big companies to operate more efficiently. See starlink. 3. Big companies know that ubiquity is important for their b…

You cut off the OP's sentence of that being examples for "Rail companies" and then added your own examples. Please be better at comprehesion and editing comments

"In practice Amazon will deliver packages across the US." You know they use the Postal Service for last miles often? And the Postal Service is required by law to service far-flung places. So Amazon is only, in practice, delivering packages to those places due to USPS.

Re: 98% isn't much

#99
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infrastructure should not be (purely) profit driven. To improve profits for train operators, the simple option is to cut lines serving small and rural communities. The economics are much worse than serving large cities. Same for cell coverage and broadband internet. Most profitable is to just not cover a few percent of the population. There is a point where technology becomes foundational for participating in society…

> the simple option is to cut lines serving small and rural communities We don’t see this in practice to though. Three examples: 1. In the airline industry big airlines don’t go everywhere for this reasons but small local airlines fill the gap due to market opportunity. 2. Changes in technology enable big companies to operate more efficiently. See starlink. 3. Big companies know that ubiquity is important for their b…

Meanwhile in Britain in the 1960s, this cost-cutting closure of local rail lines did happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeching_cuts ... at a time when the trains and rail infrastructure had been publicly owned for about 15 years already. It doesn't dispel the incentive.

Re: 98% isn't much

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the simple option is to cut lines serving small and rural communities We don’t see this in practice to though. Three examples: 1. In the airline industry big airlines don’t go everywhere for this reasons but small local airlines fill the gap due to market opportunity. 2. Changes in technology enable big companies to operate more efficiently. See starlink. 3. Big companies know that ubiquity is important for their b…

You cut off the OP's sentence of that being examples for "Rail companies" and then added your own examples. Please be better at comprehesion and editing comments "In practice Amazon will deliver packages across the US." You know they use the Postal Service for last miles often? And the Postal Service is required by law to service far-flung places. So Amazon is only, in practice, delivering packages to those places du…

> then added your own examples. Please be better at comprehesion and editing comments

Did you miss the part where the conversation was about Ticketmaster and rails were used as an analogy for understanding the problem?

> So Amazon is only, in practice, delivering packages to those places due to USPS.

I don’t think that’s true as I can buy many things on Amazon which cannot be shipped via USPS.

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