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GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

martinalderson.com

311–320 of 495 posts

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge case of survivorship bias when trying to recall historical analogues, because in every instance where margins collapsed and competition made the industry a commodity business, the big proprietary names are no longer with us. Here's a selection of examples, though: 1. Memory chip margins collapsed so much in the 80s that Intel exited the memory chip business entirely. At the time, they were known much m…

There's a really noticeable difference in time frame covered in your examples (80s and 90s) and the one in the comment you're replying to (2010s and 2020s). Is that just two people with different go-to examples? Or is there something going on here? (I don't mean this as a leading question to some conclusion in my back pocket, I genuinely have no clue.)

It's politics.

The US's corporate problems in the 1980s and early 1990s existed when strong international competition existed.

It began to change with things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_U.S.%E2%80%93Japan_Semico... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord.

It was accelerated further with things like anti-circumvention clauses in Free Trade agreements (see Cory Doctrow's recent highlighting of this: https://pluralistic.net/2026/01/01/39c3/) and then had more gasoline thrown on the fire in the ZIRP/easy money era post GFC, culminating with the bazooka of stimulus unleashed post-covid.

My best guess is we are now going to witness ~20 years of slow unwind. You can already see signs of this in things like RoW/EM stocks outperforming the S&P, treasury yields diverging from other "safe haven" soverign bonds (e.g. swiss), gold price rising, Europe starting to get serious about addressing the Draghi report's findings, European defence spending increasing, China starting to act like the "adult in the room" wrt the recent Iran/US blow-up etc. Essentially, countries/blocs attempting to re-assert sovereignty that has been willingly diluted over the last ~30 years to mainly America's benefit.

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a really noticeable difference in time frame covered in your examples (80s and 90s) and the one in the comment you're replying to (2010s and 2020s). Is that just two people with different go-to examples? Or is there something going on here? (I don't mean this as a leading question to some conclusion in my back pocket, I genuinely have no clue.)

Somewhere else in the comments here, someone else remarked "Individuals perhaps [move to the new models], but not organizations." That's illustrative. The mechanism by which organizations are forced to update their technology, move to more competitive suppliers, and cut costs is a recession. In one, every business that doesn't do so goes bankrupt, and what's left are the more efficient businesses that have adopted te…

> the economy is filled with bullshit jobs, bullshit corporations, and bullshit products.

Yeah, it sure feels true.

There's even a book about it, you know, to help people cope with it:

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691276786/on...

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#313
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factor in that Europe is powerful partly because of its unity and there are many forces trying to undermine that.

Europe became powerful before it was unified, and ever since the creation of the EU it's been becoming less and less important on the world stage.

So you’re saying that the war-ravaged Europe of 1946 that was split by the Iron Curtain and needed Marshall Aid was more powerful and important than today’s EU?

Insane take. But somehow people will go to any lengths to disparage the EU.

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#314
"There is no doubt that using Z.ai's official API and subscription is almost certainly a non-starter, with their terms being at best weak and the deep connection to Mainland China."

This is the key statement in the article. I think people don't realize that these "open" weight models exist because giving away your product at a loss is a time honored marketing strategy. There's nothing guaranteeing that the next iterations will be open (remember "Open"AI?).

The Chinese labs are profit seeking companies. If they can't recoup their investment through API use, they won't be able to train more models. But if the argument is 'who cares, training models will be so cheap anyone will be able to do it ',then check the comment elsewhere on this comment section about free alternatives for consumer and enterprise software.

Oh... And the variation 'what we have today is already good enough for everyone' argument is just another incarnation of '640Kb should be enough for everyone'.

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#316

Where does the harness come in to play? I'd love to use GLM 5.2 for general chat, but I don't know of any harness that offers an experience close to ChatGPT or Claude (e.g., history, skills, projects) without requiring a PhD to set it up.

You can point Claude to another model if you want. See ANTHROPIC_BASE_URL: https://code.claude.com/docs/en/env-vars

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#317
post #5

I'm not convinced raw costs matter: 1. Compute costs collapsed since the advent of Cloud and yet hyperscalers still have fat margins. 2. Many open source office suites exist yet none compete with the ubiquity of gsuite or office. GitHub, Slack are similar examples. 3. Both Windows and macOS dominate the home desktop space despite free alternatives existing for a long time. 4. Many formerly open source infrastructure…

There's a huge case of survivorship bias when trying to recall historical analogues, because in every instance where margins collapsed and competition made the industry a commodity business, the big proprietary names are no longer with us. Here's a selection of examples, though: 1. Memory chip margins collapsed so much in the 80s that Intel exited the memory chip business entirely. At the time, they were known much m…

Sun didn't die because of the workstation market. It survived much longer.

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#318
Everyone is declaring GLM 5.2 as something that's really a big deal.

I don't know about that but based on my own experience with Deepseek v4 Lite alone (with high effort) I have no doubt in my mind that anyone claiming such great things about GLM 5.2 must be true because Deepseek v4 already is really awesome.

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#319
The blog author complains of "lack of/poor web search capabilities" in GLM, but you can always use it against an MCP of which there are many. For applications where I am not concerned about my queries being passed through a US provider, I have had success with exa[1]

There are also other ways to give it context without web-search. For example the various MCPs that make `man` pages available.

I've also found GLM to be quite strong for coding tasks without the need for web search. So it also depends what you're doing.

[1] https://exa.ai/

Re: GLM 5.2 and the coming AI margin collapse

#320
If you use a good harness or add the right tools and plugins both the image and web search issues mentioned are non-issues.

oh-my-pi (omp.sh) handles images for text models out of the box - as long as you have any vision capable provider enabled, it will be used when you paste images to a text model. Rather than let it guess I configured it to use MiniMax M3 for this task (as well as other utility tasks like code exploration & library functions).

opencode has plugins that do the same thing, but I haven't used it since picking up omp and haven't tried them.

In open harnesses you can also configure your search provider(s) separately from the model provider - if you've got a ChatGPT sub you can use just their websearch for example. I've been using Kagi's API and found its cheap enough not to matter to me at all.

As for slowness, I'm not sure I'm really seeing that in terms of wall clock time. The author says GLM uses more tokens for reasoning but doesn't explain how they know that - frontier models don't provide nearly the entire reasoning trace. I have the suspicion that the author is not aware of that fact. I use Opus with Claude Code for work and I find it subjectively slower because I can't read its CoT trace. That is another HUGE benefit of GLM: I can't tell you how many times I've seen it start to go sideways in its CoT - usually due to something I didn't tell it - and I just stop it and give a course correction rather than wait a whole turn.

Overall I agree with the takes from the article and frankly its sad how much cope I see on Twitter (and even here) from people that think AI coding is busted once subscription subsidies are dropped. GLM is already good enough and cheap enough to use it at API rates - but it is MUCH more expensive than other open models that are also very nearly good enough.

In twelve months I'm confident you'll be able to get equivalent results at API rates for less than $1 per million output tokens, and more likely that will happen in six months. Deepseek v4 Pro is already almost there (and at only $0.85/MM) - and at least on benchmarks its already better than GLM 5.1 which I was happily using quite a lot before 5.2 dropped. I haven't tried Deepseek since I already have a z.ai pro sub that I locked in for $30 - at $72 its a lot less compelling.

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