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GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

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Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#191

Post by imtringued »

joegibbs wrote: post #34
wahnfrieden wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like google search, this does not work because of how common long tail use is. What you think could be a big chunk, is more likely to be a fraction of a percent of queries. And what use is similar query caching - so you (very often! if actually cost effective, maybe half the time) get a response to a query that was different from yours. Including for when you have a lot of context input already. You’re going to get t…

But there must be a ton of generic questions that people ask. Stuff like "What's the capital of country X?" - it's probably at least 10% of queries. Memories, custom instructions etc would invalidate them, but if you can return the answers basically free it's probably worth it.

How is that cheaper? You now need to have a database of millions of possibly gigabyte sized rows. Also, transformers have quadratic complexity, so short queries cost practically nothing.

The only optimization that makes sense is per user prefix caching, because you are often sending the same system prompt over and over again or are continuing a conversation.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#192

Post by bob1029 »

bberrry wrote: post #146
dprkh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are corporate employees not allowed to use personal subscriptions?

If you want your company's code to be used in training, then yes.

I pitched this to management as a way to get a very expensive fine tuning job done for free. They're not quite across that line yet but we're getting closer every day.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#193

Post by wjnc »

bob1029 wrote: post #182
noduerme wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen that mentality and gone to bat to convince a boardroom that it's the wrong approach, when people were star-struck by the possibilities. Luckily I'm in a position as CTO of a (very non-tech, brick and mortar) company that entrusts me to manage their budget for new features, and prevent erosion of our software/logistics over the long term. And I've come down decidedly on the side of not having LLMs fuck with…

> I shot down similar arguments in favor of outsourcing overseas for years. Outsourcing any critical logic to an LLM is even worse. Outsourcing to another continent of humans and supplementing workflows with LLMs are entirely different operational universes. I think it is fair to put them on the same spectrum, but they're really far apart. I'd argue outsourcing is a far more aggressive abdication of ownership of the…

No need for the downvotes imho. Can’t speak for u/noduerme but in putting outsourcing (labor, LLM/AI) in the same basket I don’t see a category mistake, but a dry way of looking at business. What are the risks, what are the rewards, what future skills are we at risk of losing (the business logic part) if we go in direction XYZ.

Something completely different (but with the same logic): do you outsource legal, hire your own team of business lawyers or will you let customer services use AI for legal problems (and only hire a lawyer for a day in court)? I think all three solutions are currently active in different firms. From a risk perspective I would always want a lawyer on my team. Insource those learnings. But perspectives vary.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#194

Post by FergusArgyll »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #141
bloppe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Dario is pretty annoying, but I think the "tech villain" archetype is essentially survivorship bias. The tech leaders who don't act that way are not nearly as visible because they're not nearly as successful.

HN is just a massive Anthropic hate fest now, probably funded/manipulated by OAI's $8B PR budget. OP phrases it as a bad thing that Dario is keeping compute multipliers to Anthropic. How naive can one be? Compute multipliers are the whole business. Those are the trade secrets every lab is built on. It is the alpha of the business. How does protecting this make Dario evil? This website is getting out of hand with the…

Hey! I'm an on-again-off-again Anthropic hater and I may be guilty of uninformed hot takes but I'm not paid for by OpenAI[0]

People have different opinions than you, it happens..

[0] @sama if you're reading this we can fix that...

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#195

Post by stingraycharles »

layla5alive wrote: post #26
postalcoder wrote: post #2

I wonder if it's related that that OpenAI has found a way to cut inference costs by half, according to The Information. https://www.theinformation.com/newsletters/ai-agenda/openai-...

https://archive.ph/NEwVz "However, these inference optimizations, which rival Anthropic refers to as “compute multipliers,” are a big focus for all the labs. Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei has been publicly talking about the concept since at least mid-2023, when he said on a podcast that the company limits “the number of people who are aware of a given compute multiplier” because it could give other AI labs a leg up if t…

Ok I’m not sure I follow your point here. Isn’t all that he’s saying that if they find some optimization techniques, that gives them an edge? And that makes sense?

How is this suddenly evidence of him being a villain?

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#196

Post by websap »

throw394042 wrote: post #30

I'm working in large US corporation. And I see that I already have access to 5.6-Sol Ultra on my corporate account. I haven't really used it yet. 2 months ago management was showing us scoreboards, praising leaders who used most tokens. Last few weeks, we're getting weekly emails, telling us that whenever we can - we should use cheaper models, and that we should watch the page which shows our tokens usage.

Dog! Use it and tell us how it is! Stop with this token maxing moaning. You have access to a new powerful tool.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#197

Post by simianwords »

throw394042 wrote: post #30

I'm working in large US corporation. And I see that I already have access to 5.6-Sol Ultra on my corporate account. I haven't really used it yet. 2 months ago management was showing us scoreboards, praising leaders who used most tokens. Last few weeks, we're getting weekly emails, telling us that whenever we can - we should use cheaper models, and that we should watch the page which shows our tokens usage.

wow almost as if they needed to incentivise people to use and then tame it down to keep it in sustainable levels. shocking!

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#198

Post by wjnc »

OtomotO wrote: post #164
wjnc wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in Finance and learned pretty quickly that to point out the implicit future cost raises based on the cost the LLM-providers need to recoup was unpopular at best (STFU better describes the situation). Running full force into a bear trap.

The sad part is that you work in FINANCE of all things and this happens there. Like: What competence do decision makers in FINANCE have, when they are this oblivious to economics?

Look, I share your sentiment. But, I can relate to the C-squad though. Going squarely against the market sentiment is not the way to gain and keep confidence. And everyone is vibing right? So they are probably thinking something like: as long as the spent is < few percent of a years profit, we can always adjust direction in the future and at least we’ve bet the same horse as the rest. “Those penny pinchers in finance (:: me) don’t get the big picture.”

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#199

Post by Szpadel »

there seems to be very big misunderstanding about what the "ultra" is, so let me explain it basing on the codex source code:

it's similar to Claude code ultracode.

there is no ultra effort level implemented on the backend. it's just alias in the codex to max effort setting and single line addition to prompt to use subagents proactively. that's all

as far as we know pro models work differently. for once those are backend implementations and they probably run multiple parallel reasonings for any chunk and use some judgement model to pick best version as persistent one. but that's what I believe is most popular guess, because this is openai secret sauce.

there is still no way to use pro models from codex, or at leat so far there is no trace of it anywhere.

Re: GPT-5.6 Sol Ultra will be in Codex

#200

Post by cubefox »

dannyw wrote: post #123
nl wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their methodology isn't published. Its widely accepted[1] that it runs the same query through the model in parallel and then has a model that either selects the best answer or synthesizes an answer from the multiple ones generated. I believe most people think it runs 6 sub-models, but I think that is based on the pricing. It's a pity that OpenAI doesn't publish details like this. [1]eg https://news.ycombinator.com/it…

Basically like passes@6 or passes@5 if you’re doing a benchmark, except for your real tasks. Pro is quite limited on the web UI I reckon. This approach can be highly effective for reasonably verifiable task, for example, write comprehensive unit tests pointing out a tricky bug, get multiple agents to swarm at it.

> Basically like passes@6 or passes@5 if you’re doing a benchmark, except for your real tasks.

It's unclear how they would do this when there is no signal that provides an objective ground truth.

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