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The Log is the Agent

arxiv.org

51–59 of 59 posts

Re: The Log is the Agent

#51

> In this arrangement the log is a byproduct: an audit artifact written alongside the real computation, never the substrate of it. I’ve come to the same conclusion building my own agents. It simply feels ‘wrong’ that most frameworks will happily mutate your context. You have to explicitly go out of your way to store the original events. I’ve now started storing an event log for my own agents, this is used as the sour…

Why not save progress and important results of a conversation (i.e. including tool calls and such) to a project markdown (even multiple as needed) and clear your context window completely rather than compacting many times? You can then just specify a markdown file to be included as context. Especially if following any kind of plan document and executing on a part of it.

It’s the diffrence between net present state and the sequence of events the lead to it, aka event sourcing.

There are pros and cons both ways.

NPS is more succinct and devoid of intermediate deviations, thus less likely to throw the agent off target.

ES otoh does contain deviations which might be salient in the future reasoning. If nothing else then to prune approaches that are known to be dead ends, but also fruitful approaches might have use especially when couple with the line of reasoning that lead to their application.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#52
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should probably only interact with the agent by writing to the log, which it executes from, and the agent should probably only interact with the external environment by writing and executing code. That fixes a lot of issues with non-determinism.

What if a tool produced an error and a retry? Is retry loop now a part of the log?

Flaky tools and unreliable systems aren't that different. "What if my database crashes while recovering? What if it crashes while recovering from a crash-while-recovering?" That's when you pull out database ARIES, UNDO / REDO.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just emdash not-just-X-it's-Y unironically or am I missing the satire?

Oh pardon, I’m trying to sarcastically complain how a lot of comments in this thread have a similar form: “I used this pattern in my own agent, which is different from (all the other agents which use the same representation)” Agentic development tends to encourage siloed individualistic development, so a lot of engineers reinvent similar patterns from first principles. It’s easier to write your own new thing than sur…

Oh I thought you were just one of them but stealth mode. That makes sense given the graph thing, thanks. Needed some caffeine and a nap.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#54
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just emdash not-just-X-it's-Y unironically or am I missing the satire?

Oh pardon, I’m trying to sarcastically complain how a lot of comments in this thread have a similar form: “I used this pattern in my own agent, which is different from (all the other agents which use the same representation)” Agentic development tends to encourage siloed individualistic development, so a lot of engineers reinvent similar patterns from first principles. It’s easier to write your own new thing than sur…

As someone belonging to the group you just described, I like discovering things from first principles, and build them. It’s a big part of how I get to learn things, and find it fun.

This thread is helping me see how others addressed the same ideas.

I get and share criticism in the context of “AI hype startup culture”.

But out of it, this thread is really valuable for me mostly because of the links to codebases.

“Siloed individualistic development” openly shared is the part of HN I like most.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#55
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at an AI event and the number of people who have started talking like AI output is crazy.

You were right to call that out. We need to identify the real shape of the problem.

Do you think the vocabulary is load bearing, or do you need to caveat it's genuinely the lack of real ideas that's the problem?

Re: The Log is the Agent

#56

weird why did my same submission 3 days ago not get picked up . how does the algorithm work https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48752135

it works by ppl harvesting low ranked submissions and resubmitting them via a (unofficial) voting ring.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#57
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh pardon, I’m trying to sarcastically complain how a lot of comments in this thread have a similar form: “I used this pattern in my own agent, which is different from (all the other agents which use the same representation)” Agentic development tends to encourage siloed individualistic development, so a lot of engineers reinvent similar patterns from first principles. It’s easier to write your own new thing than sur…

As someone belonging to the group you just described, I like discovering things from first principles, and build them. It’s a big part of how I get to learn things, and find it fun. This thread is helping me see how others addressed the same ideas. I get and share criticism in the context of “AI hype startup culture”. But out of it, this thread is really valuable for me mostly because of the links to codebases. “Silo…

[deleted]

Re: The Log is the Agent

#58
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh pardon, I’m trying to sarcastically complain how a lot of comments in this thread have a similar form: “I used this pattern in my own agent, which is different from (all the other agents which use the same representation)” Agentic development tends to encourage siloed individualistic development, so a lot of engineers reinvent similar patterns from first principles. It’s easier to write your own new thing than sur…

As someone belonging to the group you just described, I like discovering things from first principles, and build them. It’s a big part of how I get to learn things, and find it fun. This thread is helping me see how others addressed the same ideas. I get and share criticism in the context of “AI hype startup culture”. But out of it, this thread is really valuable for me mostly because of the links to codebases. “Silo…

Good points, makes me reconsider. Than you. 100% keep going—this is how you learn! I hope my complaining about the commoditization AMA individualism of AI doesn’t add too much elitism or discouragement to the discussion, though rereading my post I definitely see how it could.

In a sense, sharing products in threads like this helps future people see what else has been done!

Re: The Log is the Agent

#59
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone belonging to the group you just described, I like discovering things from first principles, and build them. It’s a big part of how I get to learn things, and find it fun. This thread is helping me see how others addressed the same ideas. I get and share criticism in the context of “AI hype startup culture”. But out of it, this thread is really valuable for me mostly because of the links to codebases. “Silo…

Good points, makes me reconsider. Than you. 100% keep going—this is how you learn! I hope my complaining about the commoditization AMA individualism of AI doesn’t add too much elitism or discouragement to the discussion, though rereading my post I definitely see how it could. In a sense, sharing products in threads like this helps future people see what else has been done!

Thanks :)
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