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The Log is the Agent

arxiv.org

41–50 of 59 posts

Re: The Log is the Agent

#41
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at an AI event and the number of people who have started talking like AI output is crazy.

It’s insidious! I used Claude code at my last job enough for it to influence my writing and speaking style without me really noticing, even though I tried to be wary of that.

Soon we'll be able to carbon date humans based on AI exposure. brb pivoting my startup

Re: The Log is the Agent

#43
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just emdash not-just-X-it's-Y unironically or am I missing the satire?

Oh pardon, I’m trying to sarcastically complain how a lot of comments in this thread have a similar form: “I used this pattern in my own agent, which is different from (all the other agents which use the same representation)” Agentic development tends to encourage siloed individualistic development, so a lot of engineers reinvent similar patterns from first principles. It’s easier to write your own new thing than sur…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47425470

i had asked about this a while ago

Re: The Log is the Agent

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With my database hat on, in the context of agentic systems I would argue that write-ahead logs form a good (and potentially transactional) interface between speculative agent work and durable world mutations [0]. That said, there are a _lot_ of "logs for agents" papers that I've read (and unfortunately gotten assigned to review) which are basically "we asked claude to hack on a graph DB and generate a paper". [0] htt…

We should probably only interact with the agent by writing to the log, which it executes from, and the agent should probably only interact with the external environment by writing and executing code. That fixes a lot of issues with non-determinism.

Agreed. While not directly applicable, I was a huge fan of Mozilla's rr [0] in undergrad. Quoting their site:

> rr records a group of Linux user-space processes and captures all inputs to those processes from the kernel, plus any nondeterministic CPU effects performed by those processes (of which there are very few).

I think the solution will resemble that. You don't control the LLM, sure. But you can control what it sees, and maybe that's good enough.

[0] https://rr-project.org/

Re: The Log is the Agent

#45
> graph-memory research

The problem I have with graph representations relative to LLMs is that you can never directly apply the concept. Everything that speaks to an LLM must ultimately be serialized. There's no getting around the token stream semantics.

I've found that one big flat markdown file tends to outperform everything. You could certainly project an event log into a graph and then serialize that, but it starts to feel like a Rube Goldberg machine at this point. It's a lot easier if you just work with the same terms that the models do.

Remember if that big document rarely changes and everything that comes before it is also constant, you'll pay something like 10% of the normal rate with providers like OAI for the tokens in those documents. The clever schemes to piecemeal out information feel good to the ego and might appeal to accounting at first glance, but I think the bitter lesson will ultimately win out here. We already have a million token context windows. Even if 90% of that is bullshit it's still a lot of tokens to work with.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#46
That's pretty much the architecture I'm using in my personal coding harness Tau (tau-agent.dev) . There are some other points in here, but there are relatively minor. I think the observation that event log / event sourcing / cqrs works perfectly for harnesses is not very novel.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#47
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just emdash not-just-X-it's-Y unironically or am I missing the satire?

I was at an AI event and the number of people who have started talking like AI output is crazy.

You were right to call that out. We need to identify the real shape of the problem.

Re: The Log is the Agent

#48
post #41
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s insidious! I used Claude code at my last job enough for it to influence my writing and speaking style without me really noticing, even though I tried to be wary of that.

Soon we'll be able to carbon date humans based on AI exposure. brb pivoting my startup

[deleted]

Re: The Log is the Agent

#49
post #41
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s insidious! I used Claude code at my last job enough for it to influence my writing and speaking style without me really noticing, even though I tried to be wary of that.

Soon we'll be able to carbon date humans based on AI exposure. brb pivoting my startup

"That new hire tested very well. It only took five minutes of AI interviewing before he threw the monitor out of the window."

Re: The Log is the Agent

#50
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With my database hat on, in the context of agentic systems I would argue that write-ahead logs form a good (and potentially transactional) interface between speculative agent work and durable world mutations [0]. That said, there are a _lot_ of "logs for agents" papers that I've read (and unfortunately gotten assigned to review) which are basically "we asked claude to hack on a graph DB and generate a paper". [0] htt…

We should probably only interact with the agent by writing to the log, which it executes from, and the agent should probably only interact with the external environment by writing and executing code. That fixes a lot of issues with non-determinism.

What if a tool produced an error and a retry? Is retry loop now a part of the log?
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