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Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

euronews.com

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Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#61

Post by Ma8ee »

zdragnar wrote: post #40
Epa095 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initially, he planned to remove dust from the surface of the photovoltaic cells using a cylindrical brush mounted on the rear of a train. “However, we realised that each time a train passes, it creates an airflow that sweeps away all the dust,” he said. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/emissions-reduction/solar-energ...

That seems pretty optimistic in the long run. Even a high power leaf blower won't get all the dust off of a dirty surface, especially if any sort of hydraulic oil, bearing grease or other viscous fluid mists onto the surface.

One thing that has struck me with our own solar panels is that they have to be very dirty before I notice any significant degradation in efficiency. And when they do get completely covered in pollen or leaves, a brief rain is usually enough to clean them.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#63

Post by CrzyLngPwd »

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #43

I'm in the south UK, live off grid, and have a bunch of solar panels, none of them are flat aside from the 640w of panels on my van, which generate almost nothing during the Winter. Panels on the sides ot trains might be a better solution.

WTF is the downvote for?

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#64

Post by leni536 »

prmoustache wrote: post #41
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #25

Solar sidewalks, solar roads, now solar rail? WHY?! Dave from eevblog did the math and it's bad Did we really fill up all the area on top of roofs, parkings lots, industrial areas, etc., and we're running out, and we have to put solar cells on railroads?

> Did we really fill up all the area on top of roofs, parkings lots, industrial areas, etc., and we're running out, and we have to put solar cells on railroads? I guess it is easier to control the deployment since they own the railroads.

And all the train depots and train stations are already covered in solar panels, I presume.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#65

Post by dukeyukey »

ryanmcbride wrote: post #50
dvh wrote: post #31

Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.

I'll never understand why people latch onto these kinds of solar "solutions" in search of problems. Like that solar roadways fiasco a decade or so ago. Just normal-ass solar is already safe proven and effective. Why do we need to remix it when there are still so many easy wins to be achieved?

People hate the idea of solar in currently-unused space. Even if that space is bare desert. So you can get a big PR boost if you propose "solar, but on a thing" (roadways, water, and now trains).

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#66

Post by LaurensBER »

tryagainian wrote: post #19
LaurensBER wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that the cost to install is fairly low since train tracks require regular monitoring and maintenance so it's fairly cheap to add the installation and maintenance on top of the existing schedule. The manufacturer claims that durability should not be an issue. Time will tell.

Placing a cover over the area between the tracks makes it much more difficult to inspect the ties (sleepers) and ballast.

I'm not an expert but I think the SBB is already pretty good at handling this. I think they already run measuring wagons (Oberbaumesswagen) with grond penetrating reader and ultrasonic measurement and use flow sensors to monitor drainage.

I would expect that the solar panels impact the efficiency at least somewhat but apparently not enough to cause real and enough issues for the SBB or perhaps they see ways to improve this in the future.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#67

Post by brudgers »

I've been nerd-sniped into google fueled napkin math.

  18kw/100 m = 180kw/km
The most powerful Swiss electric locomotive [1] maxes out at 7900kw. That's 44km of track.

The most common Swiss electric (4/4) typicaly maxes at 6100kw requiring up to 34km of track.

Switzeraland has about 5000km of track and 180 is about 200, so a million kilowatts if all the track has solar panels.

Assuming 3000kw per locomotive and 100% efficiency [2], that's 300 electrical locomotives running simultaneously. The Swiss fleet is about four times that.

---

Of course I am no expert.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_used_by_Swiss_Fe...

[2] and ignoring the 10 per year efficiency loss of the panels mentioned in the article

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#68

Post by lefra »

Aurornis wrote: post #44
dvh wrote: post #31

Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.

Or don’t put the panels near a railway at all. We have so much land and even empty rooftops that would be easier and safer to use first. Running panels along a railway means the electricity has to be carried all the way back to some point, meaning either giant cables to handle the current or specialized equipment and high voltage transmission lines. None of that was addressed by this pilot program that was 100 meters…

Conveniently, there's already an electric cable sized to transport a few MW nearby. This might reduce the cost of installation, also there'll be no land acquisition/impact study issues.

However, I agree that putting solar panels in between or near rails will increase the cost of maintenance: the technicians will need to travel longer times to the work site, and now they also need to be certified to work near railroads.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#70

Post by 6510 »

dn3500 wrote: post #60
SoftTalker wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem kind of silly to put the panels between the rails, more prone to damage there from stuff falling off the trains, derailments, etc. and not angled for optimal sun exposure though I guess it's easy open space. Before I read the article I was thinking the electricity from the panels would power the trains but doesn't sound like the output is enough.

They're getting 180 watts per meter, so it would take 50 km of panels to power one high speed train. And that's when the sun is shining. Double this at least if you want to store the energy and run trains in the evening.

This is incorrect, you mean 180 kWp/m.

> in one year, the project has produced around 16,000 kWh.

160 kWh per meter.

  Urban Metro / Trams: 2 to 10 kWh/km

  Commuter Trains (EMUs): 4 to 12 kWh/km

  Regional / Intercity Trains: 6 to 20 kWh/km

  High-Speed Trains: 15 to 60 kWh/km

  Freight Locomotives: 10 to 50+ kWh/km
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