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Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

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Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It took 100 meters to do this. Thankfully, Switzerland has lots of meters of railway. > Covering an entire railway with panels would require a different transmission setup to get the power back to somewhere useful. There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power.

> Thankfully, Switzerland has lots of meters of railway. The linear meters of railway are nothing compared to the square meters of rooftops. Putting panels in a long row is the maximally worst arrangement you can come up with. > There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power. I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too. It’s also high v…

> I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too.

Its sole purpose is power transmission, to the trains.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#52

This will never work, and it's ridiculous: https://youtu.be/7vItnxhWRqw

And yet it did work, with positive results shown over a year, right? It seems that the reasons why this "could never work" like cracks, dust, and vibrations might have perfectly reasonable solutions. Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect conditions, and other factors like real estate, ease of maintenance, access to the grid come into play in interesting ways. I…

there may be solutions to it but there are just already existing places to put solar panels that don't even require coming up with solutions.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#53

This will never work, and it's ridiculous: https://youtu.be/7vItnxhWRqw

And yet it did work, with positive results shown over a year, right? It seems that the reasons why this "could never work" like cracks, dust, and vibrations might have perfectly reasonable solutions. Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect conditions, and other factors like real estate, ease of maintenance, access to the grid come into play in interesting ways. I…

> And yet it did work,

You can put panels on anything and generate power for a couple years.

This system was only 18kW. That’s less than what we put on some residential houses. They didn’t address any of the hard parts like a transmission system capable of scaling up along a linear row of panels extending kilometers long.

> Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect conditions, and other factors like real estate, ease of maintenance, access to the grid come into play in interesting ways.

They had to use special panels for this, not the cheap ones you know. Any installation in an area like this requires reinforced and protected panels, which are more expensive than what you’re thinking.

You did identify some of the problems: Maintenance on this is terrible. They’re not going to shut down train routes to fix problems with the solar, so when something breaks it’s probably broken for years until a maintenance window can shut down transpiration.

Access to grid is terrible. You can’t re-use the train power lines, so I guess we’re running new transmission lines? A linear array is the worst possible configuration for a solar array because it maximizes the transmission distance and starts to require high voltage equipment to work.

Would you ever think it would be a good idea if someone suggested we go put solar panels out in the middle of nowhere between towns? Or would you agree it’s better to put them close to the towns on unused space like rooftops where they can feed directly into local loads? I think the visual of putting these on train tracks is misleading a lot of people into thinking we’re getting something for free when really this is an absurdly expensive way to place and connect solar panels.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#54
post #2

Always nice when something that I suggest in a random comment only to get a dismissive reply, turns out to be an idea worth persuing all along.

These are not ideas worth pursuing from an engineering standpoints. It doesn't make any sense compared to just doing the cheap and proven at scale thing of just placing them in normal fields.

But I will agree that the idea has proven marketing merit. This is a class of truly top tier snake oil. The solar roadways people continue to go unbelievably far on almost the same grift.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thankfully, Switzerland has lots of meters of railway. The linear meters of railway are nothing compared to the square meters of rooftops. Putting panels in a long row is the maximally worst arrangement you can come up with. > There's caternary on 99% of Swiss rail, every few dozen meters, that already transmits power. I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too. It’s also high v…

> I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too. Its sole purpose is power transmission, to the trains.

You understand that wire doesn’t have infinite capacity, right? You can’t just point to a wire and say “problem solved”.

I can’t even tell if you’re honest or just trolling at this point in the conversation.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guarantee this wasn’t oversized to accommodate power transmission duties, too. Its sole purpose is power transmission, to the trains.

You understand that wire doesn’t have infinite capacity, right? You can’t just point to a wire and say “problem solved”. I can’t even tell if you’re honest or just trolling at this point in the conversation.

> You understand that wire doesn’t have infinite capacity, right?

Why would it need that? Your original complaint was "18 kW is less than what gets installed on a lot of houses". Which is it? Too much to handle or too little?

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#57
post #31

Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.

I'll never understand why people latch onto these kinds of solar "solutions" in search of problems. Like that solar roadways fiasco a decade or so ago. Just normal-ass solar is already safe proven and effective. Why do we need to remix it when there are still so many easy wins to be achieved?

friends of friends simply need all that sweet government grant money

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#58
post #31

Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.

I'll never understand why people latch onto these kinds of solar "solutions" in search of problems. Like that solar roadways fiasco a decade or so ago. Just normal-ass solar is already safe proven and effective. Why do we need to remix it when there are still so many easy wins to be achieved?

Yeah, I can understand putting solar on things when it lets them become standalone off-the-grid setups but for something like railroad track it’s just not that much space and the costs are so much higher. Except on the tightest urban lines, just putting rows of normal panels next to the tracks should be significantly more space with much easier engineering.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it did work, with positive results shown over a year, right? It seems that the reasons why this "could never work" like cracks, dust, and vibrations might have perfectly reasonable solutions. Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect conditions, and other factors like real estate, ease of maintenance, access to the grid come into play in interesting ways. I…

> And yet it did work, You can put panels on anything and generate power for a couple years. This system was only 18kW. That’s less than what we put on some residential houses. They didn’t address any of the hard parts like a transmission system capable of scaling up along a linear row of panels extending kilometers long. > Solar panels have gotten so cheap that it might not be as important to install them in perfect…

It could make sense along an electrified rail line, if the power lines used to supply the trains can be leveraged for distribution?

But, putting panels between the rails seems foolhardy to me too.

Re: Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland

#60
post #31

Solar cell is the only practically viable power source with no moving parts. Stop trying to attach it to moving things. Movements breaks things. Just put the panels by the rail, e.g. as vertical sound barriers in reasonable distance (to lower the pressure waves from train) from tracks. Or on a nearby field where it can be protected and inspected all at one place.

It does seem kind of silly to put the panels between the rails, more prone to damage there from stuff falling off the trains, derailments, etc. and not angled for optimal sun exposure though I guess it's easy open space. Before I read the article I was thinking the electricity from the panels would power the trains but doesn't sound like the output is enough.

They're getting 180 watts per meter, so it would take 50 km of panels to power one high speed train. And that's when the sun is shining. Double this at least if you want to store the energy and run trains in the evening.
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