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Programmers need to start meditating

jacob.gold

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Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#111

Post by skydhash »

ordersofmag wrote: post #82
reactordev wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point was they trained to be a runner, not a cyclist.

But the metaphorical goal is to cover distance not get fit or to make the best use of what you trained for. A trained runner on a bike is faster than a trained runner. At least if the metaphor is about coding as a means to creating usefully functional code as efficiently as possible. Careful coding by hand may eventually be a hobby activity. Personally, while I do get some satisfaction in coding by hand it was always…

> A trained runner on a bike is faster than a trained runner.

Not true if they kept going the wrong direction.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#112

Post by paulbjensen »

Meditation is great, but there might also be other options available when it comes to dealing with the effects of context switching.

For me, I find the Pomodoro technique really effective, but there's a key caveat, which is that you try to focus on one thing at a time (which flies in the face of using multiple AI agents working on x number of things at the same time).

Another angle to explore is how much of the process of software development that we do manually can we automate, particularly the parts that still require human input (like code reviews). That may also help with reducing the cognitive load.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#113

Post by skydhash »

embedding-shape wrote: post #88
throw-the-towel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loving code does not necessarily mean being an architecture astronaut.

The people I'm talking about literally like coding for the sake of coding (many have shared comments here on HN about it in the past too), which I think is the same group who now are loosing their "passion for software engineering" as the LLM takes over the typing/coding part, but still leaves the design/intention to the human. But yes I agree, one does not equal the other, but if one person has one of those characte…

If you have ever endured the pain of bad code and cumbersome architecture when trying to fix a bug or implementing a feature, you start to be adverse to anything that increase the likelihood of it happening.

Most people that happily use the LLM for coding either are not responsible for the code running or have no qualms to being a reverse centaur.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#114

Post by wolvoleo »

hashmap wrote: post #99
wolvoleo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it a net negative, or useless, or impossible to do. So a categorical "you should do this" isn't correct or particularly helpful. Try it, if it works for you, great; but don't put it about that people who aren't doing it are being negligent in some way Absolutely. I've tried mediation in many situations and some classes but it's just not for me. M…

At the risk of you hating this answer, because I hated this answer, but to me that sounds like you are holding it wrong. I have adhd and found it dumb and boring and possibly not even real / placebo or new agey until during one attempt I hit the phase change and had the holy shit this is amazing moment where it worked for like 3 seconds. The quiet relaxation felt like idk a euphoria in every part of my body just to n…

Maybe but I've just not been able to make it work. I get that in other ways though.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#115

Post by skydhash »

Syntaf wrote: post #42
senfiaj wrote: post #10

>> I’m clearly much more productive now. I’m doing five things at once very effectively, switching between multiple agent sessions from morning to night. Joel Spolsky disagrees here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/02/12/human-task-switche...

Does Joel still disagree today? Worth noting that this article is 25 years old. The world was very very different back then, especially when it comes to software engineering. Context switching is a problem when the cost of switching contexts is non-negligible -- but in the age of agentic development is that still really true? Surely yes for some problems, but for many others I would argue it no longer is. A personal…

This behavior is how you get:

> user X reported an issue on the trial balance page, they encountered a blank page when using the inception to date filter.

It’s whack-a-mole with bugs.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#116

Post by tasuki »

inigyou wrote: post #25
jahala wrote: post #8

Meditation - «getting used to» A most elementary form of meditation, is getting used to placing your attention on a sensation and keeping it anchored there - even when other sensations or thoughts arise. Following the breath- place your awareness, your attention, on the sensation of air passing through your nostrils. Count one inbreath and outbreath cycle as «1», and count until 10 or 21. Decide before you start, how…

Why 21?

No idea, but the five tibetan rites were also recommended to me with 21 repetitions. Perhaps it's an Eastern thing.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#119

Post by feanaro »

Syntaf wrote: post #42
senfiaj wrote: post #10

>> I’m clearly much more productive now. I’m doing five things at once very effectively, switching between multiple agent sessions from morning to night. Joel Spolsky disagrees here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/02/12/human-task-switche...

Does Joel still disagree today? Worth noting that this article is 25 years old. The world was very very different back then, especially when it comes to software engineering. Context switching is a problem when the cost of switching contexts is non-negligible -- but in the age of agentic development is that still really true? Surely yes for some problems, but for many others I would argue it no longer is. A personal…

What is also lower is your understanding of the change. So yes, if you are now essentially only doing the final mile of paper pushing for the LLM, then the mental burden is lower but so is the assurance of what has just transpired.

Whether this mode of working is going to be long-term viable is going to depend on how important it is for you to be aware of what has happened for the system in question, how viable the economics are for the LLM usage at this level of assurance and how much ownership you exert over the LLM used or another similarly powered one (because otherwise the LLM can be taken away from you, leaving you at the mercy of a third party with goals that do not align with your own).

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#120

Post by marcAKAmarc »

Just wanted stop here to say that I find myself lucky to be able to retain employment as a gamedev engineer without using any AI or agent in my daily process. I work remote, so I don't know what the experience of my collegues entails. Am I really slipping into antiquity?
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