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Programmers need to start meditating

jacob.gold

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Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#81

Post by wolvoleo »

ifwinterco wrote: post #78
wolvoleo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it a net negative, or useless, or impossible to do. So a categorical "you should do this" isn't correct or particularly helpful. Try it, if it works for you, great; but don't put it about that people who aren't doing it are being negligent in some way Absolutely. I've tried mediation in many situations and some classes but it's just not for me. M…

It being boring is part of the point - normally your brain is constantly stimulated so it does indeed feel strange and uncomfortable when that stimulus is taken away. Pushing through that is what leads to progress. Meditation is like physical exercise, it's not exactly "fun" at the time, you sort of have to learn to enjoy it, but it's never easy. Like exercise the real reward is backloaded

This is exactly what the OP and I argue against, people insisting that it must be good for everyone. By the way the 'painful' part does more heaviy lifting there, not the boring.

I've really tried a LOT during therapy and in some other situations. And it just doesn't work for me.

Same with traditional exercise by the way. I can't do exercise in a gym (too empty) or have those 'gamification' goals, it must be more natural. I'm extremely anticompetitive and antiauthoritarian so some watch telling me I'm doing great just generates irritation.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#82

Post by ordersofmag »

reactordev wrote: post #57
memoriyato3 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was impossible to write code for 8 hours straight, you naturally had to stop but you can prompt for 8 hours more or less like running versus cycling - you can cover more distance by cycling and it's less intensive (I'm talking casual running/cycling, not racing) agents are a bicycle for the mind

The point was they trained to be a runner, not a cyclist.

But the metaphorical goal is to cover distance not get fit or to make the best use of what you trained for. A trained runner on a bike is faster than a trained runner.

At least if the metaphor is about coding as a means to creating usefully functional code as efficiently as possible. Careful coding by hand may eventually be a hobby activity.

Personally, while I do get some satisfaction in coding by hand it was always the production of something useful that I found most rewarding. I was never someone who wrote code for a hobby. With LLM's I'm more productive. And I find that very satisfying.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#83

Post by inigyou »

memoriyato3 wrote: post #61
bragh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we just aren't far enough in the vibe coding side of things and there are still too many people in the industry who still pay attention to details, so no major catastrophes haven't happened yet because of vibe coding. So the people who pay attention to details are still carrying their organizations, but I do wonder how long it is going to be sustainable. When it comes to joy killers because of AI, then it is di…

programmers were always against "software patents" - the idea of copyrighting algorithms and implementations

implementations are already copyright

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#84

Post by witx »

varjag wrote: post #73
witx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think performance relates to speed and amount of code per unit of time yes. If you're more grounded with the reality of software engineering then no

I have in fact masters in SE and three decades experience of commercial programming. Loved every minute of it (well except the burnout episode) and still do my hobby projects. So I would say no, you are wrong. The models decimate not just the coding (the best and the most fun part of development) but all the pseudo-engineering roles like architects or product managers too. Simply because there's less need for communi…

Well and my experience of 2 years working full time with AI (and 15 others of engineering) on safety critical adjacent products tells me you're full of it and wrong.

We've had 4 teams on this model and sure it helped in some things (mostly data analysis and scripts) but generating code and doing architecture is utter crap 90℅ of the time. So much so that we've even had juniors noticing some design patterns that, and I quote: "this is one the examples of bad code we were taught in sw design classes'. The worst is how non deterministic they are. The same prompt from different people yields vastly different results

SW engineering is mostly x + y + z Where x=planning, y=writting code and z=reviewing, then rinse and repeat. Llm spedup y but made everything else take so much longer that equation result is much worse. Now reviewing is utter torture and during planning we're dicussing how to mitigate the pitfalls of LLM (like over engineering, too many abstractions) that we spend fewer time on the planning of the engineering itself and more on cuddling this brain addled tool

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#87

Post by inigyou »

memoriyato3 wrote: post #55
ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

it was impossible to write code for 8 hours straight, you naturally had to stop but you can prompt for 8 hours more or less like running versus cycling - you can cover more distance by cycling and it's less intensive (I'm talking casual running/cycling, not racing) agents are a bicycle for the mind

Why is prompting for 8 hours easier than coding for 8 hours?

Is it because the prompts matter less?

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#88

Post by embedding-shape »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #80
embedding-shape wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sound harsh but that the people who solved problems with code just because they love coding disappears from problem-solving environments does sounds like a win-win for everyone involved. I've both been in situations where I loved coding the solution more than I want the problem solved, and I got in the way of people who just wanted the solution, and vice-versa where architect-astronauts are more interested in cod…

Loving code does not necessarily mean being an architecture astronaut.

The people I'm talking about literally like coding for the sake of coding (many have shared comments here on HN about it in the past too), which I think is the same group who now are loosing their "passion for software engineering" as the LLM takes over the typing/coding part, but still leaves the design/intention to the human. But yes I agree, one does not equal the other, but if one person has one of those characteristics they tend to also have a bit of the other, at least in my experience.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#90

Post by bayindirh »

inigyou wrote: post #72
bragh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They crashed yes, but not for too long and they did recover. And was it ever confirmed it was because of vibe coding? Not sure how much if any it even impacted their stock.

It was confirmed each was because of vibe coding.

Can you share some links?

Asking for myself, some friends and HN community at large.

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