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California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

nytimes.com

61–70 of 84 posts

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#61

>With 395,608 regulatory restrictions, California is the most heavily regulated state in the nation, according to the report. On average, states have 135,000 regulatory restrictions in administrative rules, with California's regulations more than doubling the national average. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-11-03/... I wonder how many they've added in 5 years. Do all these laws improve peoples…

At first you might think "How the heck can a state have so many regulations!?". Even the ~40000 regulations of the states with the least regulations might seem like a lot. How the heck are people supposed to be able to keep track of all those regulations so they can avoid violating them?

But if you look closer there is a hint to what is going on. According to the US News article these are the 10 most regulated states: California, New York, Ohio, Illinois, Texas, Oregon, Washington, Florida, Massachusetts, Louisiana.

These are the 10 least regulated: South Carolina, Michigan, Wyoming, Kansas, Arizona, Nevada, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Idaho.

Note: the US News article says they had to omit some states due to limited availability of data. Also that list is from 6 years ago. I found a later list without those omissions.

It is mostly the same, with the addition of some of the states the US News list had to skip, and the order is quite a different in the two bottom 10 lists.

Combining the lists these are the most regulated states (in alphabetical order): California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Texas, and Washington.

These are the least regulated: Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Utah, Wyoming.

One thing that stands out about the first list is that most of them are major players in a variety of major industries. The second list doesn't seem to be nearly as diversified.

I bet if you dove into the details of regulations this would be a big factor. The top list has more regulations simply because they have more to regulate. In any given field they don't necessarily have more regulations than other states, but they have more fields that are big enough to need regulation. More diversity also means more conflict between different industries which will tend to increase the need for regulation.

A key aspect of this, and why we aren't overwhelmed with just keeping up with regulations, is it is the breadth of the regulatory systems that leads to the high counts. not the depth. You only have to deal with a few branches in this wide tree.

For example the US News article says that the most regulated industry is administrative and support services, such as unemployment services, collection agencies, and call centers. All of us not involved in such services can pretty much ignore that big chunk of regulation.

There is a similar thing with the federal tax code. The Internal Revenue Code is around 7000 pages, and the Federal Tax Regulations are another ~70000 pages. But a lot of that is because of the breadth of the US economy, and another contributor to the size is that the government uses per industry tax incentives and penalties as a way to encourage or discourage things that they want to influence. The net result is the tax code and regulations are full of things that 99% of taxpayers (individual and business) can completely ignore.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#62
post #41
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well despite all that regulation, they're an economic powerhouse, they must be doing something right. CA is far from perfect but at least they occasionally aspire to do something for the benefit of their citizens - not something I can say for my 'least regulated' state that mostly just saps money from the federal government.

They're sitting at the centre of a web of software services that coordinate some unreasonable amount of the internet. They've definitely done something right, California might be hosting one of the most impressive economic clusters outside of China. But that doesn't tell us much about the relationship between that thing and their regulations. The regulations might be supporting the thing, or the thing might be so suc…

"Past performance is no indicator of future success."

They did something right fifty years ago. Now? No. They're doing nearly everything wrong.

Top-two elections coupled with rigged ballots so voters can't really choose, and no one can prove anything (and it's against the law to try). Government program after government program that fails to solve basic problems because the money seems to up and disappear, and when the public calls for an audit the person doing the stealing gets to say "No."

187,084 homeless in California in 2024. 181,934 homeless in California in 2025 after 2024 spending of more than $2.5 billion (with a B) on homeless programs. They would have done better if they had just given every homeless person $13,363. It's the same expenditure.

Instead they spent $485,437 per person helped (5,150). The median household income in California in 2024 was $100K. So they spent four times the median household per person helped. Those are bad results.

They're driving out businesses. They're destroying the infrastructure that let them build the economic juggernaut of agriculture and tech (reservoirs left dry, water management mishandled deliberately, forest mismanagement contrary to decades of evidence).

Generally speaking, I've liked their food and consumer product safety regulations, and most of those have been emulating Europe, but most of the rest they've gotten wrong. They're still rich because of Silicon Valley and Hollywood, but they're driving away tech, and while Hollywood has a long way to tumble, it's on its way to doing that to itself.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#63
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

N=1 but I make a good amount of money and left California for a zero tax state. I feel like the quality of life is similar between the two. I don't feel like I was getting anything for the 13%+ extra taxes I was paying in California. Nearly every California program has a huge amount of wastage. Take: - High speed rail - 10x the cost of comparable European programs, still haven't built anything. Deadlocked by regulati…

> left California for a zero tax state. Where, pray tell, is this state with zero taxes? Próspera?

They likely meant zero income tax. Off the top of my head that's New Hampshire, Texas, and Florida.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#64
post #51
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't very important and the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. Although it does seem appropriate that everyone should know the price of something before they buy it, as long as it happens before the money is handed over that is fine.

cheaper for customers??? What world do you live in where sellers care about customers?

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Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#65
post #43
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't very important and the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. Although it does seem appropriate that everyone should know the price of something before they buy it, as long as it happens before the money is handed over that is fine.

> the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. I think this is the crux of our disagreement. In my experience, the more degrees of freedom the seller has, the more chances to fuck you over they have. I think - and this might be my European perspective and maybe why we feel differently about regulations than Americans - the main so…

[deleted]

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#66
post #51
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it isn't very important and the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. Although it does seem appropriate that everyone should know the price of something before they buy it, as long as it happens before the money is handed over that is fine.

cheaper for customers??? What world do you live in where sellers care about customers?

a world where profit motive means you have to beat competition in innovation/efficiency and separate money from consumers by providing them value. fraud / intentional deception (broadly) is already illegal.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#67
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're an economic powerhouse Could be inertia.

I know nothing about nothing, but I always assumed that all the money was from Hollywood and Silicon Valley. Outside of those two highly localized industries, is there really much more money than other states have?

Its agriculture industry is about 50% larger than that of the #2 agricultural state. It also has the largest manufacturing industry. It is #3 in defense (about 20% behind Texas and 12% behind Virginia, and almost twice as big as #4 which is Florida). It is #2 in financial services behind New York.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#68
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> left California for a zero tax state. Where, pray tell, is this state with zero taxes? Próspera?

They likely meant zero income tax. Off the top of my head that's New Hampshire, Texas, and Florida.

South Dakota, too.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#69
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're an economic powerhouse Could be inertia.

I know nothing about nothing, but I always assumed that all the money was from Hollywood and Silicon Valley. Outside of those two highly localized industries, is there really much more money than other states have?

California also has ports and railways, servicing the vast majority of trade with China. It has the strongest agricultural industry in the union. Aerospace industry from manufacturing to space launches. Worth mentioning the the oil and gas industry. It will take a long time for all these to be gone. It's easy to move Twitter or Tesla HQ to another state, but physical production is not as mobile, the same Tesla's factory is still in California.

Re: California bans 'sell by' labels, hoping to cut food waste

#70

>With 395,608 regulatory restrictions, California is the most heavily regulated state in the nation, according to the report. On average, states have 135,000 regulatory restrictions in administrative rules, with California's regulations more than doubling the national average. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-11-03/... I wonder how many they've added in 5 years. Do all these laws improve peoples…

> Do all these laws improve peoples lives?

The salary requirement for job postings has been AWESOME. Saves so much time and you can see if your company is paying market rates, realize if you are underpaid etc. Definitely made my life better. Other states are following suit! Employers hate it, haha. California, Colorado, NY, Illinois, Washington, Maryland, Minnesota and Hawaii all have this law now.

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