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Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

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Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#281
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of those are relevant factors when it comes to copyright law. And yet they very much are. US copyright law has the concept of "fair use" in 17 U.S. Code § 107 [0]. I'll paste here for your benefit, #3 is the one I referenced as most obvious but #1 and #4 are also very relevant: (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purpose…

>And yet they very much are. US copyright law has the concept of "fair use" in 17 U.S. Code § 107 [0]. I'll paste here for your benefit, #3 is the one I referenced as most obvious but #1 and #4 are also very relevant: If you're going to invoke fair use, that opens up a whole can of worms on what counts as transformative. The google books case and the google thumbnails case shows that you can make near verbatim copies…

Look, first you were wrong with the confidence of an LLM and claimed an argument that was literally in the definition of copyright fair use had absolutely no relevance whatsoever for copyright. Even now you are surprised that I invoked fair use on reading a book. That was to respond to someone who "brilliantly" brought up reading Harry Potter [0] as evidence that the law allows any extent of "memorization" and reproduction of copyrighted material.

Then you switched to a barrage of questions on the premise of words in my comments that were neither written nor implied. If you muddy the waters just enough maybe everyone gets lost in there.

> The google books case and the google thumbnails case shows that you can make near verbatim copies of works at scale and still be considered fair use

Now maybe we agree "reading Harry Potter and remembering some lines" is indeed fair use, but you decided my argument is still not relevant to create a distinction between "reading a book" and "feeding it all into an LLM" because of an vaguely related exception. For better or worse thumbnails are a copyright violation according to some courts [1]. But looking at the big "Books" decision (this is the one you meant?), did you check out the court's opinion [2]? Why would you believe the two cases are substantially similar? Just because they're both big tech? Just for yourself, from the definition of fair use and referencing that opinion, do you see any significant differences between "Google Books" and "big LLM"?

> You can't then use that as a premise to say that the courts are tilted towards ai companies

The highest bidder is what I said.

> Not to mention it's questionable how ai companies were suddenly able to corrupt all the judges, some of which were appointed decades ago, even though they only got rich a couple of years ago.

You're getting creative" about what I wrote. "AI companies"? They are just the big corrupting agent of the day, and nobody with deep enough pockets had "revolutionized" the legal areas they're working in to this degree until now. Tech in general has been doing it for a few decades already. Other incredibly powerful industries have been doing that in their respective areas for even longer. "Suddenly"? The US justice system has worked exactly like this for so many decades when it came to the interest of very deep pockets. "All judges"? I said "the system" because all judges don't have the ultimate power to ultimately decide on things.

I'm surprised at your surprise that reading a book is fair use, and that courts have been "captured" and beholden to economic interests above justice for so long we forgot when it started.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48774664

[1] http://www.linksandlaw.com/news-update59-thumbnails-germany-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors_Guild,_Inc._v._Google,...

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is much more banal that they still need warrants and tech companies hate playing police/evidence servant for the government I will not elaborate how I know, but that is not even directionally correct. But these are not even secret things that can’t be known simply through the Snowden, Wikileaks, and Vault7 releases. So why are you telling yourself this? Are you still wet behind the ears or something? Th…

Why did Google can it's mass scale location tracking again?

That's the fun part, they never did.

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> progressed due iterating on what has existed is how we progress Progress was extremely slow until the 1800s. Coincidentally corporation and modern capitalism in general developed around the same time. Of course I’m not necessarily saying it was the main or direct course since it isn’t exactly possible to create an experiment comparing it to other systems (of course that was tried an failed completely in the USSR, M…

Progress was slow until industrial farming was developed and more people could be freed from just trying to grow enough food to feed themselves. Capitalism was side effect as well.

And how and why did that suddenly happen?

> was side effect as well

A side effect of what exactly?

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#284
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They redistributed the statistical patterns of those copyrighted materials. Which perhaps should be treated similarly nos Nos for the same reason that me giving you a word cloud of the frequency of words within Harry Potter isn’t infringement. It’s a novel transformation.

Thats not as complex or scalable as what LLMs can do. The capability and scale is what changes the equation. Quantity is a quality unto itself here

Exactly, and the complexity of what they’re doing is an even more significant novel creation.

Particularly in the US there’s a four point test and the very first point:

> To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new.

I don’t know anything that has advanced the knowledge and progress of the arts more.

> The third factor assesses the amount and substantiality of the copyrighted work that has been used. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, the more likely the use will be considered fair.

This isn’t about usage in training. This would be in the LLM itself - the copyrighted works are very rarely used in the output.

> The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his original work

Would you sincerely claim that owners have become less able to make money because of LLMs? Those same owners using LLMs to increase their own output of copyrighted works?

Anyway, copyright is not an absolute right and you have to really misunderstand copyright law to claim that LLM training infringes it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#287
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one side you have people starving because they are forced to grow food which is effectively stolen and sold to enrich the party. People killed fr starvation, or by the party if you didn’t contribute enough, ate some, stole some. So the deaths are the direct result of the CCP. Vs a study which suggests 183-300k where you take the high end and seem to read about the vast range of causes of which a lot are not very m…

And on the other side you have people dying because they are denied food, shelter and healthcare as a policy choice. It's not that they can't be taken care of. It's just that it'd cost money and eat profit margins. It's an active political and ideological choice to let them die, same in both cases. Just happens to be an ideology you agree with and feel a need to defend. The 180k are currently poor people, the 300k pe…

Are you still talking about China? Where they are denied food, shelter, healthcare? Or do you accept the CCPs word over the word of the people who show videos of what reality is like in China?

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#288
As someone who knows a lot of Alibaba engineers, this is a fairly common thing and nothing special. Their company owned device has the most strict security control I've ever seen, and it's been for many years. Many softwares are not allowed to run. To me I think it's quite reasonable as the company owned device can access most of the internal resources of this huge monoploy, many of them are confidential. This kind of restriction is only for working in the company, employee's own device out of the company is free from surveillance.

Re: Alibaba to ban Claude Code in workplace over alleged backdoor risks, source says

#290
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And on the other side you have people dying because they are denied food, shelter and healthcare as a policy choice. It's not that they can't be taken care of. It's just that it'd cost money and eat profit margins. It's an active political and ideological choice to let them die, same in both cases. Just happens to be an ideology you agree with and feel a need to defend. The 180k are currently poor people, the 300k pe…

Are you still talking about China? Where they are denied food, shelter, healthcare? Or do you accept the CCPs word over the word of the people who show videos of what reality is like in China?

I don't need to accept anyone's word, I've traveled both the US and China extensively.

I'm noticing you're trying really hard to deflect though.

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