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The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

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Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#31

Post by resoluteteeth »

jazz3k wrote: post #28
OldSchool wrote: post #10

I worked as consultant at a major west coast-based health insurer in 1993. A family plan, that is, two adults plus any number of children, was $300/month; a figure that wasn't far off from the cost of a studio or 1 BR apartment at that time anywhere but the most expensive coastal cities. Today, that family plan, even as a HMO, can easily be $3000/month. I would guess that mythical apartment is maybe $1200/month now.…

I'm not sure where you live, but I'm a consultant and buy my own health insurance for a family of 4. I pay around $1200/month. This includes doctor visits and prescriptions. My wife had both of our kids on this plan and my deductible was $3,000. "So what happened Health Care" Health insurance stopped being insurance when the government forced them to cover everything. You are paying for risks that will never apply to…

> Health insurance stopped being insurance when the government forced them to cover everything. You are paying for risks that will never apply to you.

The pooling of risks is literally what makes it insurance. If any part of health insurance is arguably not actually insurance it's the annual preventative care that is certain to apply to you.

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#32

Post by beloch »

felix-the-cat wrote: post #3

I totally agree on the healthcare thing, a few years ago I was working as an independent contractor and my health insurance premiums were almost $25k a year, for a plan with a $6.5k deductible. It’s bananas if you need to buy private health insurance.

The U.S. health system is incentivized in a way that's simply not sane.

With socialized medicine, the state has some very constructive incentives. People who get sick and stay sick don't produce as much taxable income, so keeping citizens healthy is good. It costs more to remedy conditions after they develop than it does to prevent them, so preventative care is offered and even pushed. The government is on the hook for unemployed and retired people, so it makes sense for healthcare to take a long-term approach.

In the U.S. system, insurance companies want to collect money and then not be responsible for you once you become too expensive. If you get sick and can't work, lose your company plan, or can no longer afford your personal plan, that's great! You're no longer their problem. Preventative care? Sounds like a short-term expense for no long-term payoff. So old that you're virtually guaranteed to need care? Good luck getting insured without paying a fortune out of pocket! The affordable care act was pretty insane in that it left insurance companies in the loop and simply shovelled money into a broken machine. It was better than nothing, but its design made it clear that U.S. insurance companies had accomplished complete regulatory capture.

The 1% in the U.S. might get better care than they would in a country with socialized medicine (depending on the country), but the average white collar worker does not, and there's also less security. If you lose your job because of AI or because some exec made bad decisions for your company and then get a serious condition at just the wrong moment, you're F'd. How can typical Americans have peace of mind?

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#33

Post by bushbaba »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #17
OldSchool wrote: post #10

I worked as consultant at a major west coast-based health insurer in 1993. A family plan, that is, two adults plus any number of children, was $300/month; a figure that wasn't far off from the cost of a studio or 1 BR apartment at that time anywhere but the most expensive coastal cities. Today, that family plan, even as a HMO, can easily be $3000/month. I would guess that mythical apartment is maybe $1200/month now.…

Because your 1993 health insurance covered far less. There was no out of pocket maximum, you were denied for pre existing health conditions, and a surprise bill could show up anytime. Now, you can buy health insurance even if you know your anemic kid will need $1.5M of treatment in the year, and it will only cost you ~$10k to ~$15k per year. To be clear, today’s health insurance premiums are not premiums either, they…

We use an insurance model. Get upset how insurance works. Then complain it’s broken. Either it’s insurance or it’s wealth redistribution.

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#34

Post by htunnicliff »

I do not know what comes after the recognition. The broader public directs its outrage at whatever the algorithm surfaces […] while the structural rearrangement of their economic lives proceeds without organized resistance.

I wish I knew the answer to this question: What shape would organized resistance have in this day and age, especially with the fragmentation of reality caused by social media?

Myself and almost everyone in my social circles under the age of 50 seem well-primed to participate in such organized resistance, were it to come to life.

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#35

Post by Terr_ »

Exoristos wrote: post #4

This is a very thorough overview, well put together. As someone who was hired into manufacturing just before the jobs collapse detailed here, I have vivid memories of the way things were. Being employed felt valuable. Acquiring skill felt respected and rewarded. Then, still young, I myself contributed to the shift of this work out of the country, helping develop software that supported exchanging files with India and…

Right, it's not just a matter of demoralization in the sense if being unhappy, but also, er, de-imagination, where people consciously or unconsciously assume objective limitations and ceilings which don't actually exist.

Pretty much every generation has some things like that. Remember the convenience of domestic air travel in the '90s? You didn't need a boarding pass to meet someone at the gate. (Some airports are relaxing this.)

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#36

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

> The demoralization of the American white-collar worker is not a universal condition of modernity. Workers in comparable economies face the same global pressures — inflation, housing costs, technological disruption — and they are not demoralized in the same way, because their systems absorb the shocks that American workers absorb individually.

This seems like the core claim, and I don't think it's true? The author references Gallup data on a metric they call "employee engagement", referencing the fact that it's fallen to 31% in the US, but the underlying report (https://www.gallup.com/workplace/349484/state-of-the-global-...) says that that this is the best in the world and the European countries the author is using as a point of comparison have the worst in the world. The idea that people in the US are particularly demoralized as workers, while countries with a strong safety net leave everyone satisfied and loving their bosses, is not consistent with any data I've seen.

(Of course, employee psychology is far from the most important reason why we might want to build a better safety net.)

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#37

Post by arn3n »

htunnicliff wrote: post #34

I do not know what comes after the recognition. The broader public directs its outrage at whatever the algorithm surfaces […] while the structural rearrangement of their economic lives proceeds without organized resistance. I wish I knew the answer to this question: What shape would organized resistance have in this day and age, especially with the fragmentation of reality caused by social media? Myself and almost ev…

There’s the DSA. Organized resistance to the cost of living crisis in NYC has been mostly organized through them, to great popularity.

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#38

Post by dominotw »

beloch wrote: post #32
felix-the-cat wrote: post #3

I totally agree on the healthcare thing, a few years ago I was working as an independent contractor and my health insurance premiums were almost $25k a year, for a plan with a $6.5k deductible. It’s bananas if you need to buy private health insurance.

The U.S. health system is incentivized in a way that's simply not sane. With socialized medicine, the state has some very constructive incentives. People who get sick and stay sick don't produce as much taxable income, so keeping citizens healthy is good. It costs more to remedy conditions after they develop than it does to prevent them, so preventative care is offered and even pushed. The government is on the hook f…

> People who get sick and stay sick don't produce as much taxable income, so keeping citizens healthy is good.

In usa, almost all of healthcare spending is on chronic diseases of ppl who are on disablity and really old.

> How can typical Americans have peace of mind?

I've done the following

1. go on spouse insurance . both ppl must work in usa.

2. dip into your savings and enroll in obamacare

3. run out of savings and fall into medicare eligiblity

> The 1% in the U.S. might get better care than they would in a country with socialized medicine (depending on the country), but the average white collar worker does not

This is not correct. When i was on cheap obamacare i had to go to some horrible hospital in south chiacago and got horrible care. They didnt even give me bed to recover from surgery i was throwing up from nausea in the outpatient room.

I get to go to northwestern and treated like a king in a posh hospital on my employer insurance.

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#39

Post by tick_tock_tick »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #31
jazz3k wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you live, but I'm a consultant and buy my own health insurance for a family of 4. I pay around $1200/month. This includes doctor visits and prescriptions. My wife had both of our kids on this plan and my deductible was $3,000. "So what happened Health Care" Health insurance stopped being insurance when the government forced them to cover everything. You are paying for risks that will never apply to…

> Health insurance stopped being insurance when the government forced them to cover everything. You are paying for risks that will never apply to you. The pooling of risks is literally what makes it insurance. If any part of health insurance is arguably not actually insurance it's the annual preventative care that is certain to apply to you.

Yes, but classically insurance wouldn't allow a guaranteed bad bet in. Health care is way worse then the classic 80/20 (20% of the people generate 80% of the costs). Pruning even just a fraction of these ultra high cost humans massively reduces the cost for everyone else which is what insurance companies used to do before the government stepped in.

(I mean a lot of this discussion is fucked because healthcare is literally your life but the point still stands)

Re: The Demoralization of the White-Collar Worker

#40

Post by fluoridation »

piva00 wrote: post #26
titanomachy wrote: post #12

Does it make people feel better to write articles like this? I feel like we all know this stuff already. Figure out how to make more money, or how to be happy with less, or go live somewhere else. (I’ve done all three, at various points.) Writing AI-assisted screeds on how broken the system is doesn’t bring us closer to a functioning system, and it sure as hell doesn’t help you live a happy life. I do hope that Ameri…

Without loudly complaining there is absolutely no change. Shutting up has never improved anything. Why would the only solution be "figure out how to make more money"? There are many professions where it isn't even possible to figure that out, should all of them just shut up and move? It's great you were able to go live somewhere else, for some it would be devastating to lose their sense of belonging, other people hav…

I find it a little funny that you're doing the same thing you're complaining about.
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