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US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

theguardian.com

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Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#51

Post by affyboi »

Recurecur wrote: post #6

We should all keep in mind that foreign interests, primarily China, are astroturfing to drive resentment in the USA against AI and datacenters. National governments are largely viewing AI as a strategic capability. That’s not to say there aren’t downsides, but they vary quite a bit depending on location and grid capacity. I actually expect there will be major progress made on the energy efficiency and performance of…

I can’t believe the Chinese did this https://www.404media.co/henrico-virginia-datacenter-energy-c...

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#52

Post by shimman »

RajT88 wrote: post #35
Danox wrote: post #2

The honeymoon is over. Among regular citizens, gamers and some groups of tech, many are now incensed by the cost of memory, I was once mildly enthusiastic about AI but now not so much.

The mass data center build out is only partly driven by AI. There is a big cloud capacity crunch across the big providers, has been for a while and it is getting worse.

There is no cloud capacity crunch, what a bunch of hog wash. What we've mostly got are some of the most inefficient systems on the planet where consumers are also building some of the most inefficient projects on top of it.

There is no real effort being put towards maximizing the amount of resources you can get out of hardware, the game for the entire duration of our industry has been throwing more money to buy more hardware.

Now that there are actual limits happening, there still isn't any major motivation to truly rewrite things to be better or more efficient. What they're trying to do instead is force the US government to bail them out via corporate welfare or to threaten allies into buying their wares.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#53

Post by dheera »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #46

I feel that the resentment to be short sighted. Datacenters do not vote, but people do. If a datacenter is in a locale, it gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power.

No, it doesn't. Voters decide very little in the United States. People with money decide almost everything. They have better lawyers and better lobbyists than you do.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#54

Post by throwaway85825 »

sofixa wrote: post #29
mikestew wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it's more than the cost of memory. The person that does all of their computing on their phone doesn't care. They do care that aspect of life is infected with this shit. From the useless "AI" chatbot that is really just a reskin of their old POS chatbot (or an "Actual Indian"), to the U. S. government talking about giving money to these companies ('cuz ol' Larry and Elon need the money), all the way to the te…

Don't forget the US government openly bragging about using AI for targeting in the Iran war, while also trying to pretend it didn't strike a school and kill a few hundred schoolchildren. (No we don't know if it was AI that made the mistake, and it's not like we're likely to get a proper investigation into it)

The school used to be a military base office. Acting on stale data is common for both humans and ML models.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#55

Post by shimman »

naturalmovement wrote: post #27
Danox wrote: post #2

The honeymoon is over. Among regular citizens, gamers and some groups of tech, many are now incensed by the cost of memory, I was once mildly enthusiastic about AI but now not so much.

[flagged]

There are differences in types of data centers and hyper scale data centers are extremely different than what you're imagining.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#56

Post by delecti »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #50
wewtyflakes wrote: post #46

I feel that the resentment to be short sighted. Datacenters do not vote, but people do. If a datacenter is in a locale, it gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power.

>gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power How?

You, via your electeds, (in theory) have more power over a datacenter in your own jurisdiction than not. Though that does depend a lot on your electeds not being in the pocket of the datacenter's owners, and on the regulatory environment of the country/state leaving power available to city/county officials to do anything.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#57

Post by eduction »

arghwhat wrote: post #16
Recurecur wrote: post #6

We should all keep in mind that foreign interests, primarily China, are astroturfing to drive resentment in the USA against AI and datacenters. National governments are largely viewing AI as a strategic capability. That’s not to say there aren’t downsides, but they vary quite a bit depending on location and grid capacity. I actually expect there will be major progress made on the energy efficiency and performance of…

We should also keep in mind that the problem isn't datacenters, but how they are built. Datacenters do not have to be noisy. Datacenters do not have to cheap out on cooling solutions. Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers to pretend they're not permanently installed to avoid having to get permits. Those corners being cut is not what make AI datacenters possible or competitive.…

The noise is often from backup power solutions like diesel generators that need to be turned on regularly. Maybe that’s what the turbines are? I can’t imagine a data center getting provisioned with a turbine as its primary power. But yes a data center can be silent most of the month.

Very open to being corrected on any of this, it’s just my own understanding but I’m not in the industry.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#58

Post by energy123 »

The DCs are going up across middle income countries: industrial zones in South East Asia, India and Morocco, and also UAE/Saudi.

Anger towards DCs are pertinent from a politics-in-rich-country angle, but it has no relevance on the overall trajectory of where we are heading.

If DCs get banned in the US, there are still many middle income countries who want them in their special industrial zones, due to the FDI and employment opportunities they bring, and these countries provide generous tax breaks to hyper scalers to compete for their business.

Malaysia and India are recent examples of this policymaking. The new US funded DC zone in Philippines is another example.

There's an interesting geopolitics (emphases on "geo") angle to this if these critical assets are going to increasingly be built overseas.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#59

Post by wewtyflakes »

dheera wrote: post #53
wewtyflakes wrote: post #46

I feel that the resentment to be short sighted. Datacenters do not vote, but people do. If a datacenter is in a locale, it gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power.

No, it doesn't. Voters decide very little in the United States. People with money decide almost everything. They have better lawyers and better lobbyists than you do.

If you go in with the assumption that democracy does not work, then there is also no point in protesting, as being angry about datacenters would mean nothing anyway.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#60

Post by confidantlake »

energy123 wrote: post #58

The DCs are going up across middle income countries: industrial zones in South East Asia, India and Morocco, and also UAE/Saudi. Anger towards DCs are pertinent from a politics-in-rich-country angle, but it has no relevance on the overall trajectory of where we are heading. If DCs get banned in the US, there are still many middle income countries who want them in their special industrial zones, due to the FDI and emp…

They provide very few employment opportunities.
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