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US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

theguardian.com

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Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#41

Post by HDThoreaun »

arghwhat wrote: post #16
Recurecur wrote: post #6

We should all keep in mind that foreign interests, primarily China, are astroturfing to drive resentment in the USA against AI and datacenters. National governments are largely viewing AI as a strategic capability. That’s not to say there aren’t downsides, but they vary quite a bit depending on location and grid capacity. I actually expect there will be major progress made on the energy efficiency and performance of…

We should also keep in mind that the problem isn't datacenters, but how they are built. Datacenters do not have to be noisy. Datacenters do not have to cheap out on cooling solutions. Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers to pretend they're not permanently installed to avoid having to get permits. Those corners being cut is not what make AI datacenters possible or competitive.…

> Datacenters do not need to be powered by mobile gas turbines left on trailers

The others I agree with, but Im not sure this is true. The US government has proven itself completely incapable of expanding electricity production and grid infrastructure. How exactly are you supposed to power your datacenter when you cant access any electricity?

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#42

Post by Spooky23 »

Danox wrote: post #2

The honeymoon is over. Among regular citizens, gamers and some groups of tech, many are now incensed by the cost of memory, I was once mildly enthusiastic about AI but now not so much.

That’s just a minor speed bump in the circus of criminality that has been created by the US regime.

When Elon did his thing, it was way more than just firing federal workers. They dismantled key parts of the regulatory system. The SEC was purged, the lawyers were chased out of DoJ, and contracts that were key to external/industry groups like FINRA were terminated — they purged most of their staff.

AI and crypto is just the means of the grift. The corruption vig being applied to the markets is distorting everything. We see it with memory and food.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#43

Post by Spooky23 »

naturalmovement wrote: post #27
Danox wrote: post #2

The honeymoon is over. Among regular citizens, gamers and some groups of tech, many are now incensed by the cost of memory, I was once mildly enthusiastic about AI but now not so much.

[flagged]

And yet here you are, chilling with the dumbs.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#44

Post by xnx »

RajT88 wrote: post #38
raychis wrote: post #25

People aren’t mad about technology. They’re mad about being told after the fact that their town might lose water, power, quiet, or tax revenue to a project they didn't have a say in. Build the future, sure. But don’t sneak it past the people who have to live next to it. If you have to sneak it like that, then maybe it is not worth having. Get sick of all the shady behaviour and lying. These companies, owners, and CEO…

That is fair. Data centers are being built in my town, and indeed the city does not seem to care what people think. I ran the numbers based on some averages, and property tax revenue at a 50% discount would bring in about a billion dollars a year for a city of around 23k people. I just am not sure why the city cannot be transparent about data centers offsetting property taxes. They also do not make it clear on their…

> property tax revenue at a 50% discount would bring in about a billion dollars a year

Those are staggering numbers. In my town a single family home pays about $12K/year in property taxes. To collect a billion in property taxes would be 85,000 homes!

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#45

Post by KennyBlanken »

Recurecur wrote: post #6

We should all keep in mind that foreign interests, primarily China, are astroturfing to drive resentment in the USA against AI and datacenters. National governments are largely viewing AI as a strategic capability. That’s not to say there aren’t downsides, but they vary quite a bit depending on location and grid capacity. I actually expect there will be major progress made on the energy efficiency and performance of…

Bullshit. Nobody needs to "drive" resentment. "AI" is touching everyone's lives and in not in a good way. And nobody gives a shit what privileged, wealthy, financially-benefiting political leaders want.

AI was used by the Israelis to decide what homes in Palestine to bomb.

AI was used by the Trump admin to decide what buildings to target, including a school of ~200 kids.

xAI was deploying numerous gas-turbine trailers at their datacenters in urban areas where they couldn't get enough power. Turbines that pump out huge amounts of NOx and noise...not to mention these DCs are generating so much heat they're raising the temperature of the areas they're in.

In every social group I'm in both IRL and online people hate AI shit.

They hate the monumental waste of energy, water, and land.

They hate the noise and pollution created by gas turbine generators being deployed at DCs because the DC can't get enough power

They hate that DCs consume water treated for DRINKING and pay a fraction of what individual ratepayers pay

They hate that politicians are handing out freebies to these DCs, whether it is tax breaks of infrastructure or discounted utilities or all of the above.

They hate AI phone system 'agents' that routinely get things wrong.

They hate AI "news stories."

They hate AI "agents" they have to deal with to get support for things which somehow manage to be even worse than someone who barely speaks English and has a decision tree in front of them, despite the company clearly being able to train it on much more data and refine it.

They hate it when media outlets use AI for "artwork" and graphics that look idiotic / have basic mistakes and clearly took work away from a photographer, editor, or graphic designer. Or all three.

They hate it when businesses, acquaintances, coworkers, friends reply to them with obviously-written-by-AI responses.

There are endless stories here about how AI is swamping open source projects with garbage bug reports and push requests.

In gaming circles they hate how prices on SSDs and RAM have tripled or more.

The programmers I know see endless slop and people in their field being fired because management thinks AI can do their jobs.

The list goes on. The only people who "like" AI are AI DudeBros and investors.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#47

Post by Hamuko »

mikestew wrote: post #10
Danox wrote: post #2

The honeymoon is over. Among regular citizens, gamers and some groups of tech, many are now incensed by the cost of memory, I was once mildly enthusiastic about AI but now not so much.

I'm sure it's more than the cost of memory. The person that does all of their computing on their phone doesn't care. They do care that aspect of life is infected with this shit. From the useless "AI" chatbot that is really just a reskin of their old POS chatbot (or an "Actual Indian"), to the U. S. government talking about giving money to these companies ('cuz ol' Larry and Elon need the money), all the way to the te…

>The person that does all of their computing on their phone doesn't care.

Budget phones are a category are getting fucked, and there's a pretty good chance the next iPhone is gonna cost even more than it does now.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#48

Post by danans »

raychis wrote: post #25

People aren’t mad about technology. They’re mad about being told after the fact that their town might lose water, power, quiet, or tax revenue to a project they didn't have a say in. Build the future, sure. But don’t sneak it past the people who have to live next to it. If you have to sneak it like that, then maybe it is not worth having. Get sick of all the shady behaviour and lying. These companies, owners, and CEO…

> They’re mad about being told after the fact that their town might lose water, power, quiet, or tax revenue to a project they didn't have a say in.

I suspect they might also be a little bit mad (whether they admit it or not) that they are being subjected to all this to make a few people unbelievably wealthy.

These people aren't simple peasants - they are as aware of how the system works as well as the rest of us. Lenox is just a short distance from Flint, where they know all about how a city and its population can be left behind by an industry.

The problem is that all of a sudden they are being made to pay the price in quality of life, instead of some other group of people they could care less about or even dislike.

If this truly matters to them, and it's not just a negotiating tactic for a piece of the pie, they should consider making common cause with other groups affected by this in other areas and look past their traditional tribal alliances. Otherwise, no little municipality stands a chance against the power of capital that effectively controls government.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#49

Post by Spooky23 »

tayo42 wrote: post #30
jeroenhd wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Investors chasing the ideal of not having to employ any people while still making money somehow. And, of course, being the company to provide all the AI; in a gold rush, don't dig for gold, start selling buckets.

I get that, I mean who are the investors? Random colo companies? Are The big cloud providers are bringing up new small regions in all of these random towns? Only so many companies can even get the hardware to fill it. And there are only a handful llm providers. There's only so many companies involved as far as I can tell,but these datacenter stories seem everywhere?

There’s a whole layer of companies providing these data centers. CoreWeave is one example, and there are many others. SpaceX is in this business in their gross Memphis facility.

The big providers lease capacity in addition to their own capital investments. It helps them hedge risk. When the merry go round stops on AI, these will all go bankrupt, and H100s will be like a circa 2001 Aeron chair.

Re: US residents angry datacenters 'shoved down our throats' are recalling officials

#50

Post by throwaway85825 »

wewtyflakes wrote: post #46

I feel that the resentment to be short sighted. Datacenters do not vote, but people do. If a datacenter is in a locale, it gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power.

>gives those voters a de-facto, outsized, soft power

How?

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