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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#471

Post by doginasuit »

Schiendelman wrote: post #363
doginasuit wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, but it isn't just a matter of individuals, it is a popular movement that has captured a significant part of role of regulators. The research is still valuable, but its lack of influence is not a problem that is safe to dismiss.

Unfortunately, fighting the movement doesn't do anything for anyone. We both agree you need to fix the regulators - that's the thing you can change, and the actions that help there look nothing like arguing with the movement.

I agree that fighting the movement is generally futile, but I think there is a lot still to understand about where it comes from and better ways to respond. I think it is a lot of small factors that work together. It seems like our education system is phoning it in, not so much on the level of teachers but culturally. As someone who has spent a large part of my life in academia, I see problems there too that contribute to mistrust. I think the growing divide in our culture has resulted in fewer conservative voices within that sphere of influence, and they quite understandably feel shut out and uninvested.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#472

Post by trimethylpurine »

tuesdaynight wrote: post #461
trimethylpurine wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In [1] "those who are not vaccinated" is a tiny subset of society that is actually composed of those who are infected, and also symptomatic, and also not vaccinated. A large portion of society can't be counted because they are asymptomatic. How do you find them to count them? In fact that's nearly everyone. And for those people the vaccine increases their risk by 4/100,000. (More harm than good.) Let me know if I've…

Why increase? Are you saying that asymptomatic people don't have myocarditis risk?

Because it's causally linked to myocarditis[0].

[0] https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/12/myocarditis-v...

>Are you saying that asymptomatic people don't have myocarditis risk?

No.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#473

Post by trimethylpurine »

cogman10 wrote: post #455
trimethylpurine wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many, they could choose to lose their jobs and let their families go hungry, tantamount to being forced.

The only people that really qualify for this is military service people. Everyone else could take weekly covid tests. The rule to require vaccines more generally was pretty quickly struck down. So you are right. I shouldn't have said "nobody". But also, it's not exactly everyone.

I did write "many."

And for clarity sake, it's way more people than just the military. Many cities and counties had mandates, including NYC. Everyone in nearly the entire health industry across the country. Many restaurant workers. A bunch of banks and many, many other companies in various industries had mandates just because their leadership was political or used it as a way to reduce labor without penalty. A lot of people were forced.

I don't think it's fair to try to minimize that. It's a major point of ongoing political contention and its among the many reasons why many people stopped voting left (including me).

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#474

Post by Schiendelman »

doginasuit wrote: post #471
Schiendelman wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, fighting the movement doesn't do anything for anyone. We both agree you need to fix the regulators - that's the thing you can change, and the actions that help there look nothing like arguing with the movement.

I agree that fighting the movement is generally futile, but I think there is a lot still to understand about where it comes from and better ways to respond. I think it is a lot of small factors that work together. It seems like our education system is phoning it in, not so much on the level of teachers but culturally. As someone who has spent a large part of my life in academia, I see problems there too that contribu…

Yep, the education system is phoning it in. Competition really does help - everyone seems to hate charter schools, for instance, but they seem to be helping in some areas.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#475

Post by estearum »

calf wrote: post #468
xboxnolifes wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not upset. My critique is that societal health communicators are doing a poor job at communicating risk, and instead fall back on just making the claim that something is safe and everyone should listen to them. Taking a complex topic and distilling it into simple, consumable bites that your audience can injest is what communication is. Yet, so much communication takes the easy route of "the public cant possibly un…

You are being too patient. Reading this, just look at their contradictory behavior, one one hand they thrice called you lazy, curious, and upset (all ad hominems, attacks on motive), meanwhile they outwardly frame themselves as a steward of science institutional literacy/legitimacy and passive-aggressively "shoulding" everyone else, twisting that expressing any critique is just failing to use "information". There's t…

“Government must inject information directly into my brain at precisely my literacy and curiosity and intelligence level. Failure to do so is THEIR fault, and not an indictment of my literacy, curiosity, or intelligence.”

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#476

Post by fwipsy »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #285
fwipsy wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone refuses a vaccine and then passes on a virus to someone else, who dies, isn't that morally equivalent to "forcing" a vaccine on someone, who then dies? Your argument seems to be "people who choose to put others at risk, should be prevented from doing so." This seems like a much stronger argument in favor of requiring unvaccinated people to stay home rather than putting others at risk? Every death is a trag…

No, it's not morally equivalent, as one of these is very obviously unintentional and a result of simply living one's normal life, and the other is neither of those things. It's also somewhat irrelevant since the vaccines do not prevent transmission. At best they lower the chance to some degree and now you're in the weeds of trying to measure something that's too multivariate to measure.

Scientists and the government were also unaware of vaccine side effects. These vaccine injuries and deaths were also unintentional.

"Living one's normal life" seems to unreasonably privilege the status quo. I am sure many drunk drivers also felt they were simply living their normal lives, before drunk driving was illegal. The definition of "normal life" changed because it needed to. When there's a global pandemic on, it needs to include vaccinations.

"Herd immunity is too multivariate to measure" seems like a very strong claim. Do you have a source for that?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#477

Post by willmadden »

optionalsquid wrote: post #456
willmadden wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw that and described the page you linked. The actual study is gate kept behind a paywall or "institutional access". "Get full text access - Log in, subscribe or purchase for full access."

Yes, it's unfortunate that the Lancet is not an Open Access journal. But, as you say, you can just purchase the paper if you wish to read it

Then, therefore, this article is making broad, bold claims without accessible proof.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#478

Post by defrost »

qsera wrote: post #331
RandomLensman wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What don't you like about current reporting such as VAERS? Where do you see the barriers there specifically? Do you have examples of doctors getting their licenses revoked for reporting something?

>VAERS When you got your vaccine, were you told to report at VAERS if you have any problems? Most people does not even know such a thing exists. Even then the reports from that database is not really considered trust worthy. It is often dismissed with a statement that "anyone can report anything there!"

Anyone can report anything there and it is meaningless in any single specific case what the after affects of single vaccine applied to a specific person might be when extending to the population wide results of that vaccine.

There was a particular case in the UK where a vaccine was about to be administered, there was a fumble and a slight delay during which the patient went into cardiac arrest. Had that occurred after the vaccine was administered then that would go as a (possible) adverse reaction into VAERS and entered as such by the medical staff (who do know such a thing exists). As it happened before any vaccine was applied, it didn't.

VAERS isn't "dismissed" though - correctly used it is statistically analysed to investigate whether tens of thousands of reported events after a vaccine application differ in frequency than such events in the absence of a vaccine.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#479

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

epistasis wrote: post #400
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A rushed phase3 was completed and there was no chance it wasn’t going to be. You know damn well that wasn’t even remotely the normal process. It’s ok, you don’t need to pretend anything about Covid was “by the book”.

The facts are not in your side, but you certainly do have a lot of unfounded FUD.

Find a single phase3 trail that was successful before deploying to the world.

Find ONE.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#480

Post by epistasis »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #479
epistasis wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facts are not in your side, but you certainly do have a lot of unfounded FUD.

Find a single phase3 trail that was successful before deploying to the world. Find ONE.

How about the one I linked?

Or take any cancer drug approval over the past decades, those all had phase 3 trials that succeeded before the drug was released.

I have to admit that I can even conceive of what your point is here, or why you are acting so emotional and indignant about the required step before drug approval, as if it doesn't exist.

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