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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#461

Post by tuesdaynight »

trimethylpurine wrote: post #407
croon wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Norwegian study landed on 4.5 cases per 100k from vaccinations [0]. Unvaccinated occurance was 200 per 100k [1]. [0] https://www.oslo-universitetssykehus.no/en/departments/hjert... [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38262150/

In [1] "those who are not vaccinated" is a tiny subset of society that is actually composed of those who are infected, and also symptomatic, and also not vaccinated. A large portion of society can't be counted because they are asymptomatic. How do you find them to count them? In fact that's nearly everyone. And for those people the vaccine increases their risk by 4/100,000. (More harm than good.) Let me know if I've…

Why increase? Are you saying that asymptomatic people don't have myocarditis risk?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#463

Post by jleyank »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #415
jleyank wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world was lucky the omicron mutation chose virulence over lethality - it could outcompete the older, more “effective” strains. This coupled with vaccines, isolation and antivirals (and treatment changes) kept the count down. A different roll of the mutation dice might have made a sars that spread easily. That would have thinned out the middle aged folks.

One of the issues that I see looking back was authorities not recognizing the qualitative change that happened when Omicron came on the scene. It spread like wildfire, and its symptoms were relatively mild especially for those who were vaccinated. And at that point the sensible policy choice would have been to drop many of the mandates, but in many places they just doubled down harder and I think it was this final fe…

There was no guarantee it was the last significant mutation. Long Covid is a thing which many are still fighting, so delaying eliminating restrictions was a safe decision. Vaccine uptake was not uniform.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#464

Post by tsoukase »

Sammi wrote: post #359
moralestapia wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? What was the change?

Not 100% sure but I think it was this: Never inject into a vein. Always inject into a muscle.

In an intramuscular injection this is always tested by the nurse and this complication is far rarer than a nerve injury by the syringe. But in billions of cases anything can happen.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#465

Post by tsoukase »

uslic001 wrote: post #434

I am a doctor. Pfizer Covid vaccine gave me a left leg DVT plus a peripheral neuropathy. I will never take another mRNA vaccine again.

I am also a doctor (neurologist). I don't doubt the diagnosis and the cause, as I have seen such cases in 2021/2. I only say being a doctor and having such a side effect are independent so you must be one of a few cases in the world.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#466

Post by tsoukase »

mRNA seems to me as the perfect method to insert controlled, short lived proteins to the bloodstream. Simple, clean, deterministic and seemingly safe and it turned out to be such. In vaccine development, if the technique has similar maturity and application as the traditional egg-based one, I am sure it will rival it in safety, speed, cost, width of diseases.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#467

Post by _heimdall »

estearum wrote: post #440
_heimdall wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're raising drastically different scenarios in what I'm pretty sure would be a strawman argument, though yes people with Ebola do still get medical treatment. They are generally isolated and/or treated at a temporary unit setup during an Ebola outbreak, they aren't told no at the door because they're sick.

At the time people were talking about restricting COVID visitors, we really didn't know if we were dealing with something most similar to a seasonal cold, a serious flu, or the Spanish flu. > They are generally isolated and/or treated at a temporary unit setup during an Ebola outbreak, they aren't told no at the door because they're sick. Obviously this would be the result of not allowing unvaccinated people into hos…

People weren't calling for temporary hospitals being stood up or wings allocated just for unvaccinated people, they were calling for people to be denied care.

Your Ebola example still doesn't hold, the death rate and transmissibility is drastically different between the various colds/flus and Ebola. Not to mention you're justifying blocking individuals from care because we didn't know what we were worrying about yet and because they chose not to take an experimental vaccine using a new technology that was rushed through testing (and reasonably so, I get why they rushed to EUA but that does make it more effective or better understood).

I assume you don't agree with the ACA, medicare for all, or healthcare as a right. All of those ideas are based on ensuring everyone has access to healthcare, and that preexisting conditions can't be considered.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#468

Post by calf »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #454
estearum wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so you're upset that people propagate the easy-to-understand information much more thoroughly than the super technical hard-to-understand information?

Im not upset. My critique is that societal health communicators are doing a poor job at communicating risk, and instead fall back on just making the claim that something is safe and everyone should listen to them. Taking a complex topic and distilling it into simple, consumable bites that your audience can injest is what communication is. Yet, so much communication takes the easy route of "the public cant possibly un…

You are being too patient. Reading this, just look at their contradictory behavior, one one hand they thrice called you lazy, curious, and upset (all ad hominems, attacks on motive), meanwhile they outwardly frame themselves as a steward of science institutional literacy/legitimacy and passive-aggressively "shoulding" everyone else, twisting that expressing any critique is just failing to use "information". There's two reasons someone will act this way, either they are afraid of the antivaxxers (certainly, a serious problem) and think a hostile approach works (it does not), or they have vested interests in the current institutional/bureaucratic order -- which goes back to the problem you were trying to point out. It's the 21st century version of scientism.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#469

Post by [deleted] »

tuesdaynight wrote: post #461
trimethylpurine wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In [1] "those who are not vaccinated" is a tiny subset of society that is actually composed of those who are infected, and also symptomatic, and also not vaccinated. A large portion of society can't be counted because they are asymptomatic. How do you find them to count them? In fact that's nearly everyone. And for those people the vaccine increases their risk by 4/100,000. (More harm than good.) Let me know if I've…

Why increase? Are you saying that asymptomatic people don't have myocarditis risk?

[deleted]

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#470

Post by estearum »

_heimdall wrote: post #467
estearum wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the time people were talking about restricting COVID visitors, we really didn't know if we were dealing with something most similar to a seasonal cold, a serious flu, or the Spanish flu. > They are generally isolated and/or treated at a temporary unit setup during an Ebola outbreak, they aren't told no at the door because they're sick. Obviously this would be the result of not allowing unvaccinated people into hos…

People weren't calling for temporary hospitals being stood up or wings allocated just for unvaccinated people, they were calling for people to be denied care. Your Ebola example still doesn't hold, the death rate and transmissibility is drastically different between the various colds/flus and Ebola. Not to mention you're justifying blocking individuals from care because we didn't know what we were worrying about yet…

As we all know, when people on the Internet are calling for things, a reasonable expectation is for them to fully specify the end-to-end implementation plan. And if they don't provide, then you can definitely just presume the absolute worst case scenario!
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