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Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

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Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#171

Post by toofy »

sequoia wrote: post #134
tough wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been a lot of recent scandals going public against the social democratic party ruling on spain now (PSOE) and its previous dirigents. See Zapatero case. leaked by US agencies recently once Spain put some kind of friction to the Rota south spain bases getting involved on anything vs Iran. The president P. Sanchez, has been clearly antagonizing Trump in these and other intl issues (even if only visible in spain…

OK so this is not specific to Palantir, but about entrusting sensitive Spanish data to any US based company. If so, that makes sense.

well it could be limited to companies who are entirely dedicated to surveillance and massive data collection on citizens like palantir. particularly with that and how ideology based palantir appears to be.

i’m sure they wouldn’t be nearly as concerned about a US company that manufactured screwdrivers or nike or something similar.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#172

Post by Manuel_D »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #168
Manuel_D wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that "changing the world without politics" doesn't mean overthrow of democracy. It means founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world. Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.

If that were the case, then why do they spend millions of dollars on lobbying every year? Why does Meta have a "president of global affairs" plucked from Republican political circles? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Kaplan

You realize that lobbying is working within the framework of an electoral democracy? When environmentalists lobby for more stringent emissions rules, they're not overthrowing democracy they're participating in it.

So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#173

Post by sequoia »

toofy wrote: post #161
sequoia wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the objections to Palantir are political? I know nothing about Spanish politics so I assume that makes sense in the Spanish political context. This helps explain why I can't find a specific concrete concern, it sounds more vibes-based. Thank you!

if you take the time to read karp’s manifesto and look into thiels beliefs, then maybe it wouldn’t seem “vibes-based” for you. an example that may cure you of your “vibes-based” confusion, karp, palantirs ceo, argues clearly for authoritarianism and aggressive surveillance of the general population. he hilariously tries to convince people that the best way to have democracy is to not have it at all. a kind of “to pro…

"he hilariously tries to convince people that the best way to have democracy is to not have it at all."

I'm sorry but I can't find where he said this. I'm finding it confusing and suspicious that the objections to Palantir & Alex Karp are all so vague and seem to lack the rigour typically required of assertions made here on YN. Usually if you declare something like someone "argues clearly for authoritarianism," you're expected to link to a source of this claim.

People keep telling me here it's so obvious Palantir is bad I shouldn't require any specific evidence and I'm stupid if I don't see it; I'm only reminded of the emperors new cloths.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#174

Post by toofy »

gervwyk wrote: post #141

I mean.. just take a minute and listen to the CEO. The guy is having a hard time time. Clearly out of touch imo. https://youtu.be/0A3sGymV6kY

yeah, he seems to have the same issue a lot of these guys have. i’m convinced we’re going to find out at some point they’re all on some kind of modern meth type drug that entirely breaks their reality. the similarities between so many of their shifts are too striking.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#175

Post by jakelazaroff »

Manuel_D wrote: post #172
jakelazaroff wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the case, then why do they spend millions of dollars on lobbying every year? Why does Meta have a "president of global affairs" plucked from Republican political circles? [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Kaplan

You realize that lobbying is working within the framework of an electoral democracy? When environmentalists lobby for more stringent emissions rules, they're not overthrowing democracy they're participating in it. So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.

I was specifically responding to this claim:

> Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.

But it sounds like we're on the same page that they did change the world in part through politics?

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#176

Post by Manuel_D »

dgellow wrote: post #169
Manuel_D wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that "changing the world without politics" doesn't mean overthrow of democracy. It means founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world. Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.

Yes it does. He and Thiel are open about the fact they don’t believe in democracy and want to get rid of it

Again, where does Karp or Thiel say they want to get rid of democracy? They've said that government is bad at solving a lot of problems, sure. But that's a far, far cry from calling for the abolition of democracy.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#177

Post by sequoia »

john_strinlai wrote: post #151
sequoia wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

did you hit up wikipedia? the controversies section would be a start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir#Controversies

This section is hilariously hostile towards Palantir.

"Wired wrote that some people think Palantir "maintains a giant, centralized database of information collected from all of its clients", which is untrue."

'some people' is a classic weasel word[0] used to prop up the writer's opinion. This sentence is even funnier because it initially appears to state that Palantir has a centralized DB of clients data, only to finish with "...which is untrue." If the claim is untrue, why lead the section paragraph with it unless you're intending to smear or mislead? If I were to end sentences with "...which is untrue" I could write any number of things on Wikipedia.

It's as though I wrote "A YN user wrote that 'john_strinlai works for the CCP and uses ChatGPT to write all his posts', which is untrue."

I'll keep reading but rhetorical chicanery like this colours my interpretation of the article in general.

EDIT the section goes on: "[We can't pin anything specific on Palantir here]; still it is generally accepted that abuses by governments and data management failures can happen." What does that have to do with Palantir? "data management failures can happen" why is this in the section on "Palantir:Controversy"? This article is not good.

EDIT 2: This section is just comedy gold... 'Palantir "remains open to the critique of potentially being an accessory to acts of deportation, imprisonment, and racism through its contracts".' Open to critiques of potentially being an accessory to "racism?" What is this, the Future Crimes unit from Minority Report? This "future crimes" accusation is especially ironic in relation to the critiques of Palantir itself!

So I haven't read this whole section (it's quite long) but if this is the nature of the "smoking guns" I don't think much of it. Potentially maybe doing something according to 'some people...' this shouldn't hold water for any rational person.

If someone objects to Palantir for working with ICE I understand that, and if that's the nature of Spain's objections they should just say so.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#178

Post by Manuel_D »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #175
Manuel_D wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that lobbying is working within the framework of an electoral democracy? When environmentalists lobby for more stringent emissions rules, they're not overthrowing democracy they're participating in it. So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.

I was specifically responding to this claim: > Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology. But it sounds like we're on the same page that they did change the world in part through politics?

I'd say they changed the world first and foremost through technology. Their lobbying effort is mostly focused on keeping the government from interfering with their technology efforts.

But back to the main point, quoting someone saying you can change the world though technology instead of democracy and trying to use such a statement as evidence that they want to abolish democracy is nonsense.

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#179

Post by hrldcpr »

stronglikedan wrote: post #131
b40d-48b2-979e wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and probably unaffected from climate change No place is unaffected.

Most places will be unaffected. It'll only affect places where humans are, and we're not even close to filling up the planet

> It'll only affect places where humans are

What?

Re: Spain Orders Blacklist of Palantir from Public and Private Companies

#180

Post by Manuel_D »

sequoia wrote: post #137
dgellow wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't figure out what the specific objection to Palantir is. You have to be trolling, a single online search tells you how the company CEO is the textbook definition of technofascism. Take a look at his manifesto if you don’t know

So the objections to Palantir are political? I know nothing about Spanish politics so I assume that makes sense in the Spanish political context. This helps explain why I can't find a specific concrete concern, it sounds more vibes-based. Thank you!

Yes, the objections to Palantir are mostly just partisan politics. Efforts to portray Karp or Thiel as especially dangerous usually involves some taking some quote and applying a massive leap in logic.

Like, Thiel says that it's easier to change the world by inventing new technology than through democracy. And people turn around and try quote this to prop up the claim that he wants to abolish democracy.

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