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24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

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41–50 of 274 posts

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#41

At a minimum, anything above 16/44.1 requires far more than just files: monitors, a treated room, listening position, DAC, etc... but most importantly - a trained ear. That last one is the most uncomfortable truth.

A treated room would be the most impactful, DACs the least.

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#42
post #4

If you try to use empiricism when it comes to certain groups audiophiles, you are going to be sorely reminded that it's basically the equivalent of healing crystals for a different type of person. 24/192 is useful for mixing/mastering, but completely unnecessary for the end product to distribute for listening.

32-bits are great for recording too because they do an incredible job of capturing the dynamic range without having to be precise on the preamp settings. It removes an entire job from the recording workflow.

192 for mixing and mastering can be useful especially if you're doing a lot of effects, especially anything that pitch shifts. But I've seen low quality phone-microphone recordings make it to the master; if you capture lightning in a bottle, it hardly matters what the settings were, what the microphone was, or anything else.

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#43
post #33

As they say, most people listen to their music with equipment. Audiophiles listen to their equipment with music.

This is perfect, thank you this goes straight into my long-term memory bank.

On a tangent, whenever someone mentions LP sounding warmer or whatever I like to point out that I prefer wax cylinders (a.k.a. phonograph cylinders).

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#44
post #4

If you try to use empiricism when it comes to certain groups audiophiles, you are going to be sorely reminded that it's basically the equivalent of healing crystals for a different type of person. 24/192 is useful for mixing/mastering, but completely unnecessary for the end product to distribute for listening.

They literally sell actual crystals that you’re supposed to place on top of speakers and amplifiers to make them sound better.

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#45
post #36

The whole audiophile industry is built on stuff which doesn't make any sense My favourite: "audiophile-grade" audio players which allocate a single continuous buffer of RAM into which they load/decode the whole .WAV/.FLAC file, because supposedly the CPU "jumping" between "fragmented audio" causes audible "jitter". Of course, they don't know that what looks like continuous memory to user-code is probably discontinuou…

> My favourite: "audiophile-grade" audio players which allocate a single contignuous buffer of RAM into which they load/decode the whole .WAV/.FLAC file, because supposedly the CPU "jumping" between "fragmented memory" causes audible "jitter". Thanks for the laugh... this is absolutely bonkers. In case anyone is wondering, before sound hits our ears it has to go through a digital to analog conversion, which takes pla…

In addition to that, while it is possible to hit a delay and run out of buffer because memory access is slow (the most obvious would be if the input got swapped to disk at an inopportune moment), but the audible effect is really obvious. This isn't some subtle "oh my music sounds ineffably worse" effect, it's "my computer is glitching and my music is unlistenable."

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#46
I completely accept that human audition has limits that are easy to determine by playing a pure sound. But is it the same with music, where multiple frequencies are played and interfere with each other? Aren't some harmonics or effects created by these "inaudible" frequencies?

To try to imagine something similar: the human eye is unable to see UV light, yet fluorescent paint has a visible quality of its own compared to "normal" pigments.

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#47
Foobar2000 has an extension that allows you to blindly test whether you can tell the difference between two tracks.[1] The prime use is to compare different encodings of the same song from the same lossless master.

It kind of changed me a bit when I ran through 20 lossless tracks I had re-encoded to various mp3 bitrates and realized that even on a fancy system, it can be really hard if not impossible to discern even moderate lossy from lossless.

If you are an audiophile geek, really think about if you want to try this, the reality check might crack your foundations.

[1]https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#48
Nobody downloads music these days and everybody just streams. Audio at 24 bit still takes a small fraction of the bandwidth that 1080p video takes, so I don’t understand the hate for it.

I use a DAC by focusrite which can do 24-bit, and if I want to listen to higher fidelity audio on my planer headphones then I should be able to. Why should I limit myself to 16-bit

Re: 24-bit/192kHz music downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was oversimplifying a blit, the raw waveforms are usually okay, but I distinctly remember old-school VSTs where you couldn't achieve a nice saw lead at 44.1.

It's tough to tell without specific names, but I imagine a lot of particularly old* VSTs were written to use naive sawtooths rather than perfect band-limited ones, which would have terrible aliasing at 44.1 khz. Oversampling those would help a lot ! * Some people are still making this mistake, despite information on the (many) ways to do it the right way being widely and freely available!

I wonder if there's also distortion or ring modulation stages where some of the energy above hearing range might spill into audible sidebands if they're not nyquist-limited first.
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