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Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

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Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#171

Post by Ravus »

ben_w wrote: post #107
hparadiz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man you wanna talk about benefits? I actually don't even think the US should have given the internet to the world. It's basically been one giant gift. Sure it's created a situation where we sell the tech both as software and hardware and that has allowed us to redirect wealth from the world to the US however in hindsight it's making our enemies stronger and allowing technology like drones to proliferate. An altern…

> Oh man you wanna talk about benefits? I actually don't even think the US should have given the internet to the world. It's basically been one giant gift. You didn't give the internet to the world. The world made it by copying stuff you had no power to prevent them copying. Also, the rest of the world had other networks, the US version (TCP/IP) just happened to win enough mindshare to replace e.g. https://en.wikiped…

If we're on the topic of hardware, let's remember that a few years before ARPANET, Olivetti was a powerhouse rivaling IBM. The ELEA mainframe came out with a competitive design in 1957.

One of the reasons why things did not pan out is that, three years later, 58 years old Adriano Olivetti died of a heart attack on the train to Switzerland. Even discounting the theory of a CIA assassination (which has, nevertheless, been floated around), that was a butterfly-flapping-its-wings moment; without pressure from the US government wanting to maintain technological supremacy, he might have been under less stress and survived.

In that scenario, maybe the same international visitors who currently visit Milan for luxury fashion would also haul back high tech from the so-called Valle del Silicio stretching towards Turin along the Fondo river.

Or, of course, another one between a million different outcomes could have happened. Human creativity and inventiveness finds a way to flourish everywhere.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#172

Post by petesergeant »

f6v wrote: post #114
petesergeant wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna? The EU hasn't because European investors are shy about deploying capital. If you look at European weapons and aerospace, it's clear there's no particular technical or capability barrier.

There was a very real barrier to building tech companies. We couldn't listen to Spotify at work during the time people seriously called Berlin the "SV of Europe" (our office was in the neighborhood called "SV Backyard"). Why? We didn't have enough bandwidth, and the wait time for fiber was measured in years.

I remember 2008 very differently, was this a very localized Berlin problem?

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#173

Post by carlosjobim »

9dev wrote: post #87
hparadiz wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man you wanna talk about benefits? I actually don't even think the US should have given the internet to the world. It's basically been one giant gift. Sure it's created a situation where we sell the tech both as software and hardware and that has allowed us to redirect wealth from the world to the US however in hindsight it's making our enemies stronger and allowing technology like drones to proliferate. An altern…

If there's one thing all historians agree on, it's that collaboration has always been the winning strategy in human history. If the US had never opened up their innovations to the world, they wouldn't have been able to extract the gargantuan amount of money from it they did. If the US had not instated the Marshall plan after WW2, there would never have been as close ties between Europe and the US. If American compani…

Hold on. Some people and institutions in the US are massively benefitting from what other Americans gave and are giving to the world. What they sometimes have been forced to give.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#174

Post by ben_w »

Ravus wrote: post #171
ben_w wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh man you wanna talk about benefits? I actually don't even think the US should have given the internet to the world. It's basically been one giant gift. You didn't give the internet to the world. The world made it by copying stuff you had no power to prevent them copying. Also, the rest of the world had other networks, the US version (TCP/IP) just happened to win enough mindshare to replace e.g. https://en.wikiped…

If we're on the topic of hardware, let's remember that a few years before ARPANET, Olivetti was a powerhouse rivaling IBM. The ELEA mainframe came out with a competitive design in 1957. One of the reasons why things did not pan out is that, three years later, 58 years old Adriano Olivetti died of a heart attack on the train to Switzerland. Even discounting the theory of a CIA assassination (which has, nevertheless, b…

  At one point in the 1980s, Olivetti was the world's third largest personal computer manufacturer[8] and remained the largest such European manufacturer during the 1990s
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivetti

Wow, I'm genuinely surprised. I don't think I've even heard of them before now, despite growing up in the 80s and 90s in the UK. ZX Spectrum, BBC Micros, Acorns, but not Olivetti.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#175

Post by physicalecon »

RugnirViking wrote: post #61
epolanski wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing was really gained by victory Windows users have a prompt to choose their browser after installing the OS.

and you might think this is a small or pointless win, but the whole point of this is that because users have this choice, microsoft is forced to make internet explorer actually good so that people willingly choose it instead of abusing it to make life harder and worse for everyone else while making things easier for themselves. Hence internet explorer was killed and we got edge

[dead]

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#176

Post by geodel »

xxs wrote: post #32
lukan wrote: post #4

“Android provides more choice for everyone and supports thousands of businesses. This judgment fails to recognize our significant investment to ensure Android remains open, interoperable and free,” a Google spokesperson told CNBC. Sure. Which is why alternative stores like F-Droid are under threat now. https://keepandroidopen.org/

>This judgment fails to recognize our significant investment to ensure Android remains open I wonder if that could be considered contempt of courts.

Absolutely. If anyone disagree with learned opinion of their lordships, they must be charged with contempt of court and barred from speaking on court judgements in future.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#177

Post by dofm »

eastbound wrote: post #168
hnfong wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can disagree with the judgment as long as you follow the orders.

[flagged]

Not sure to what extent the ECJ is like this. It operates with a hybrid mix of inquisitorial and adversarial law.

Typically in adversarial systems you can disagree with the judge and jury's findings in public as long as you abide by them; the idea that the judge creates justice and cannot be criticised comes more from inquisitorial traditions, as I understand it.

Re: Google loses fight over record $4.7B EU antitrust fine

#180

Post by greenleafone7 »

Could this be some sort of """legalized""" corruption? Because the profits Google makes by very consciously and very deliberately doing what it is doing amount to many billions of dollars. And they are obviously not going to stop, while on the meantime we get one of these articles almost every year.

So then the EU signals how "tough" they are... Google pays for the cost of doing business in the EU... little people like us think that "we are fighting the big bad corporation", and all is good for one more year.

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