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Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

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Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#31

Post by piekvorst »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #8
JdeBP wrote: post #4

Yes, hjkl navigation is certainly one of the things that should learn about a vi clone. But are novices well served, in the 2020s, by that being the primary thing that they learn before anything else? This is not a criticism of this WWW site specifically. The VIM doco has the same priorities, teaching hjkl navigation before arrow keys. (So do nvi2 and NeoVIM.) The problem is that the received wisdom, that arrow keys…

The reasons I still use vi-style editing in editors are: 1. Efficiency, so I can be fast 2. Minimal stretching and whole-hand movement, so I don't get painful wrists and so I can be accurate. Using a keyboard's arrow keys doesn't fit with 2.

Doesn’t the act of reaching for the mouse actually creates a natural moment of wrist relaxation? A fixed wrist position creates static muscle tension.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#32

Post by magackame »

flexagoon wrote: post #21
johncoltrane wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hjkl are more of a cult/status thing anyway because they are not _that_ touch-typing-friendly to begin with, and they suck just as much as the cursor keys for moving the cursor around. Insisting so much on hjkl is silly. No one is using an ADM-3A in 2026, so the official documentation should let users use the more intuitive cursor keys and downgrade hjkl to what they have always been since vi: __ham-fisted alternativ…

How are they "not that touch-typing-friendly" when they're literally the keys that are always under your fingers when touch typing?

Bro be using two mice with a screen keyboard.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#33

Post by johncoltrane »

flexagoon wrote: post #21
johncoltrane wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hjkl are more of a cult/status thing anyway because they are not _that_ touch-typing-friendly to begin with, and they suck just as much as the cursor keys for moving the cursor around. Insisting so much on hjkl is silly. No one is using an ADM-3A in 2026, so the official documentation should let users use the more intuitive cursor keys and downgrade hjkl to what they have always been since vi: __ham-fisted alternativ…

How are they "not that touch-typing-friendly" when they're literally the keys that are always under your fingers when touch typing?

jkl; are (on QWERTY keyboards). hjkl are not.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#34

Post by greengreengrass »

marcusmichaels wrote: post #26
greengreengrass wrote: post #23

Neat, but the (presumably AI-generated) provenance of this means it has regrettable gaps and errors: On "There and back", it says par is 6 – it's solvable in 4. On "Rush hour", it describes an invalid motion 'r': "type a number first to repeat a command, e.g. 3j or 4r" It isn't clear why certain motions are being introduced where they aren't relevant, and therefore aren't going to be immediately practised at point of…

Thanks for the feedback, the par is set based on the level, not the absolute best that can be achieved. I added 4r specifically as an example to get across being able to change multiple characters such as XXXX to YYYY. Though I’m aware some keyboards might not be fully compatible yet so I’ll work on adding wider support. EDIT: You’re right, I loosely included r but it’s not technically “motion”

Thanks for following up! I had another play and I see what you mean about par, makes sense.

It would be great if the 4r perhaps isn't introduced until the game gets into the later stages of editing buffers – I think that would avoid repetitively introducing the same ideas before they can really be used.

Nice work though and nice idea.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#35

Post by flexagoon »

johncoltrane wrote: post #33
flexagoon wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they "not that touch-typing-friendly" when they're literally the keys that are always under your fingers when touch typing?

jkl; are (on QWERTY keyboards). hjkl are not.

Idk, I get what you mean but I'd personally rather not use my pinky finger for navigation, sounds really uncomfortable.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#37

Post by jagged-chisel »

marcusmichaels wrote: post #26
greengreengrass wrote: post #23

Neat, but the (presumably AI-generated) provenance of this means it has regrettable gaps and errors: On "There and back", it says par is 6 – it's solvable in 4. On "Rush hour", it describes an invalid motion 'r': "type a number first to repeat a command, e.g. 3j or 4r" It isn't clear why certain motions are being introduced where they aren't relevant, and therefore aren't going to be immediately practised at point of…

Thanks for the feedback, the par is set based on the level, not the absolute best that can be achieved. I added 4r specifically as an example to get across being able to change multiple characters such as XXXX to YYYY. Though I’m aware some keyboards might not be fully compatible yet so I’ll work on adding wider support. EDIT: You’re right, I loosely included r but it’s not technically “motion”

Butting in to add: I'd prefer vim features always be available even if not yet introduced - you don't have to mention the existence of 'r', but keeping it available to my vim habits will cause less frustration to the experiences vimmer.

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#38

Post by marcusmichaels »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #37
marcusmichaels wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback, the par is set based on the level, not the absolute best that can be achieved. I added 4r specifically as an example to get across being able to change multiple characters such as XXXX to YYYY. Though I’m aware some keyboards might not be fully compatible yet so I’ll work on adding wider support. EDIT: You’re right, I loosely included r but it’s not technically “motion”

Butting in to add: I'd prefer vim features always be available even if not yet introduced - you don't have to mention the existence of 'r', but keeping it available to my vim habits will cause less frustration to the experiences vimmer.

I’ll add that in. Makes sense!

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#39

Post by marcusmichaels »

greengreengrass wrote: post #34
marcusmichaels wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback, the par is set based on the level, not the absolute best that can be achieved. I added 4r specifically as an example to get across being able to change multiple characters such as XXXX to YYYY. Though I’m aware some keyboards might not be fully compatible yet so I’ll work on adding wider support. EDIT: You’re right, I loosely included r but it’s not technically “motion”

Thanks for following up! I had another play and I see what you mean about par, makes sense. It would be great if the 4r perhaps isn't introduced until the game gets into the later stages of editing buffers – I think that would avoid repetitively introducing the same ideas before they can really be used. Nice work though and nice idea.

I agree, will update it, thank you!

Re: Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

#40

Post by marcusmichaels »

rhetenor wrote: post #17

Pretty cool game, thanks! Two suggestions that came to my mind while playing: Would be pretty neat to also been able to navigate the town map with vi bindings and it would also be nice to been able to undo the last keystroke with 'u'.

Appreciate the suggestions, I’ll open up the letters so undo works on all the levels, and will look into the navigation (really like that idea)
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