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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#301

Post by teamonkey »

logifail wrote: post #274
idontwantthis wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a false trade off because without vaccines, the kids that would have died from vaccines are still in danger !

> the kids that would have died from vaccines are still in danger Except that we knew by May 2020 (possibly even earlier) that the data showed that the young and otherwise healthy were at extraordinarily low risk from Covid. I still recall a conversation with child#2 after one of his school friends was at home quarantining after testing positive for Covid. I asked my son if he knew if his friend was feeling better...…

Kids spread the virus, whether they’re at risk of dying or not. Vaccines reduce the chance of them spreading it by reducing the symptoms and the time that they they’re infectious.

The main benefit of vaccines is that they reduce the transmission of disease. This aspect saves more lives than individual protection.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#302

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

fwipsy wrote: post #262
cedws wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, this comment is not arguing against vaccines or their veracity, there seems to have been confusion about that. I am specifically arguing against vaccine mandates.

If someone refuses a vaccine and then passes on a virus to someone else, who dies, isn't that morally equivalent to "forcing" a vaccine on someone, who then dies? Your argument seems to be "people who choose to put others at risk, should be prevented from doing so." This seems like a much stronger argument in favor of requiring unvaccinated people to stay home rather than putting others at risk? Every death is a trag…

> If someone refuses a vaccine and then passes on a virus to someone else, who dies

Why wasn't that other person vaccinated?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#303

Post by stinkbeetle »

petilon wrote: post #58
timr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The facts are true. Blaming Trump is the innovation. For the record, I don’t care who gets blamed. I just think it’s a hilarious twist of partisan rhetoric.

If the President hires someone who then restarted research that previous admin stopped for being too dangerous, does the President get no part of the blame? The buck stops with the President. If he hired the wrong person--and he has hired plenty of wrong people this time around--he gets the blame for the disasters they cause.

This is great, speed running the meme.

1. There were no labs.

2. There was no gain of function research being funded.

3. The baseless lab leak conspiracy theory is hateful extreme far right Russian disinformation that is very dangerous to our democracy and it has already been debunked by the science and 72 intelligence agencies and CNN. Fauci is a Saint!

4. There was a lab leak and it's Trump's fault and you're still a dangerous conspiracy theorist for having previously questioned "the experts" integrity or the possibility of a lab leak.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#304

Post by elp »

mrmuagi wrote: post #218
voxl wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing it to the trolley problem is incorrect. COVID had real potential to kill you , even as a young person. At that point its a matter of risk assessment for yourself. Take a 2% chance of dying, a slightly higher chance of reduced quality of life (long COVID), or take a lottery-winning chance of dying to this blood clot. It is appropriate to do the math correctly to decide if this makes sense, but to claim that…

2% chance of death? A quick google shows it to be around 0.16%, and the deaths seem to be allocated to people who are older or just have other comorbities. I think the scientists in retrospect just didnt want hospitals to get full honestly, since they dont have the capacity for it as it is — atleast here in Canada.

For comparison the death rate from the vaccine is around 0.0001%.

Yes they didn't want the hospitals to get full. That's when the younger healthy people who would have recovered can't get the medical care they need to survive.

You had to have spent covid in a pretty sad friendless hole not to know friends or family who ended up in hospital during the peaks.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#305

Post by blub »

Sabinus wrote: post #136
cedws wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A tiny fraction of infants react to infant vaccinations. But the harm those children experience is a infintesimal fraction of the harm all children would feel if there were no infant vaccinations. It's a trade off but it's one that must be made. The parents whose child died did the best thing they could do. Until we can screen for the infants that will react, vaccinations are the best choice.

The Covid vaccine was not recommended in Germany and other EU countries for children. The risk of the vaccine was higher than the benefit for them.

It think the guidance was more nuanced for teens, but for kids it was very clear.

The vaxmaxxer vs. antivaxxer - like most culture wars - is a US phenomenon.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#306

Post by Markoff »

epistasis wrote: post #38
linzhangrun wrote: post #34

Two most populous countries, China and India, seem to have mainly relied on inactivated vaccines.

Which makes sense as they had less access to new technologies, and scaling issues were very hard in the early days. But I'm not quite sure how that's relevant to the article...

it's actually more difficult to produce inactivated vaccine at mass scale than mRNA vaccine, which is the reason why they were producing mRNA vaccines and not the old school safe tested ones

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#307

Post by blub »

estearum wrote: post #179
mchusma wrote: post #160

I really feel that many of the issues with mRNA vaccines and health studies in general are generalizations like “safe and effective”. Everything has statistical risks and benefits, and we should just share those front and center with people. Eg test results for X mean you have a Y% chance of having X, given your history and symptoms and other results. Here are low cost low risk marginal things you can do to improve s…

> Similar for vaccines, just give us the numbers clearly and upfront. You are aware that literally anyone can go and literally find exactly these numbers, correct? The trial results are published!

It’s trivial to publish these so that they’re both easily available and easy to understand. I’m guessing that’s not the case for the CDC, since you didn’t post any link or guideline.

A nice example was the EUCDC guidance on AstraZeneca’s vaccine which showed that for young age groups the vaccine was more dangerous than the disease. That allows anyone to make an informed decision for themselves instead of being bullied or emotionally blackmailed “for the greater good”.

Par for the course, I can’t access the actual study from The Lancet and have to settle for second-rate journalist summaries which are typically biased and ultimately worthless.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#308

Post by teamonkey »

Markoff wrote: post #292
KiwiJohnno wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think you are correct in reducing the argument to its basic factors. Yep, its fucked up. However if we’re going to talk about moral responsibility for vaccine mandates, we also have to consider moral responsibility for non-vaccination leading to spread of a dangerous virus during a pandemic. If you are going to hold one group responsible for vaccine-related deaths of mandated vaccines, you must also hold the g…

> However if we’re going to talk about moral responsibility for vaccine mandates, we also have to consider moral responsibility for non-vaccination leading to spread of a dangerous virus during a pandemic. that's all nice and dandy except COVID "vaccines" (remember, they had to change vaccine definition for this very reason) did NOT STOP the spread, they were at best protecting some old people, it was completely poin…

Vaccines have always been about preventing the spread of the disease and “the definition of vaccines” has not changed.

This is easy to prove. Simply find a high school biology textbook printed before Covid.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#309

Post by anonzzzies »

dehrmann wrote: post #107
wetpaws wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothingburger like pretty much everything that antivaxers talk about

Dismissing people like this is part of what fuels the antivax movement. Vaccines are generally effective, but they're not perfect and have side effects, and failing to acknowledge that when someone is asking in in good faith polarizes people and makes it look like someone's trying to hide something.

I lost friends during covid who turned into morons like that; so much so that I started to think maybe it is a side effect of the virus. One of them recently moved to the other side of the world 'because Trump is going to nuke us' (he lived in the EU). It is fine to dismiss, ignore and berate morons; they won't change their mind and must have been always like that; just before covid everyone would've laughed in your face so you would not have said any of this out loud. Now I meet a few too many people who point at vapour trails and tell me how their gov is blocking the sun and is poisoning us to keep us dumb. Dismiss and hope they won't procreate.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#310

Post by defrost »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #295
defrost wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your government refuses to let you leave the country? That aside, they also command you to own both a car and a gun?

> Your government refuses to let you leave the country? This argument also applies to you: by your logic, vaccine mandates are perfectly fine because you can leave the country. > That aside, they also command you to own both a car and a gun? The problem isn't me owning a car and gun, the problem is obviously everybody else. I'm rather unlikely to drive into myself while driving my own car.

First up, for clarity, I have no issues with COVID vaccines and how they were used in Australia - the very few cases of myocarditis were mild and resulted in no deaths.

Second up, I'm confused by your use of "mandate" and how your government mandates you to remain in that country.

> by your logic, vaccine mandates are perfectly fine because you can leave the country.

Not by my logic, nor that of Dana Scott, Christopher Strachey , Alonzo Church or others.

> I'm rather unlikely to drive into myself while driving my own car.

You can drive into a wall or off a cliff, and yes, injured by own car (or tractor) is an actual not infrequent injury.

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