Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

news.ubc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 533 posts

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#281

Post by defrost »

qsera wrote: post #271
defrost wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the attitude of medical practitioners and the media that refuse to acknowledge a vaccine could have caused an adverse effect. In what alternative group think echo chamber did that happen within? Here, in the real world, it was acknowledged from the get go that vaccines carried risks and that was why the call went out, from almost the start of 2020, for trial volunteers to find the risks associated with a number of…

I am talking about a case when there IS some adverse effect, after it happened. In that case, there is generally an effort from the practitioners that the vaccine could not have caused it, particularly when the said thing is not mentioned in the package insert or in the list of adverse effects from the manufacture.

Is this a general complaint about the lack of causality inherent in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)?

It suffers many of the shortfalls of, say, a Haircut Adverse Event Reporting System (HAERS)

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#282

Post by LMYahooTFY »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #260
zmgsabst wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of societies who started with some killing “for the common good” ended in atrocities. The statistics on men under 25 are still horrific and suggest this was in fact the latter category: atrocity masquerading behind that euphemism.

Do you apply that same standard to other things, like cars? Do you feel allowing people to drive is also society "killing for the common good"? After more than eight billion doses of the vaccine, about twenty deaths were causally linked to the vaccine. Five times as many people die every day from traffic in the US alone, many of them children. What about gun ownership? How many people does that "kill for the common g…

Cars and gun ownership were not mandated by the government.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#283

Post by blub »

amluto wrote: post #153
ifyoubuildit wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reminder to the myocarditis-maxxies, the actual virus causes that too and the 2020-2021 variants caused it worse Do you know if the vaccine prevented the virus-induced myocarditis? Cause the vaccine didn't do much to stop people from getting covid, multiple times even. So many people frame this as either/or, you either had the risk of covid induced myocarditis or you had the (supposed) lesser risk of myocarditis fr…

The comparison of cardiovascular safety with vs without the vaccine is not even close: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/covid-19-vaccinati... (Personally, I wish researchers would not forgot quite so often that there is a non-mRNA COVID vaccine available in the US. Where's all the analysis of the effects of the Novavax vaccine?)

The myocarditis as caused by e.g. Moderna was affecting teen males and you posted a link to a blog which linked to a study about 70 year old US veterans.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#284

Post by auggierose »

KiwiJohnno wrote: post #276
cedws wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

Yes, I think you are correct in reducing the argument to its basic factors. Yep, its fucked up. However if we’re going to talk about moral responsibility for vaccine mandates, we also have to consider moral responsibility for non-vaccination leading to spread of a dangerous virus during a pandemic. If you are going to hold one group responsible for vaccine-related deaths of mandated vaccines, you must also hold the g…

Young people are actually right then in never ever taking any vaccine recommended by public policy ever again. If taking a vaccine is against your personal interest, and nevertheless public policy, that is the consequence.

It is one thing to make a judgement error in the heat of a crisis, it is quite another one to deny afterwards what a huge fuckup it has been.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#285

Post by LMYahooTFY »

fwipsy wrote: post #262
cedws wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, this comment is not arguing against vaccines or their veracity, there seems to have been confusion about that. I am specifically arguing against vaccine mandates.

If someone refuses a vaccine and then passes on a virus to someone else, who dies, isn't that morally equivalent to "forcing" a vaccine on someone, who then dies? Your argument seems to be "people who choose to put others at risk, should be prevented from doing so." This seems like a much stronger argument in favor of requiring unvaccinated people to stay home rather than putting others at risk? Every death is a trag…

No, it's not morally equivalent, as one of these is very obviously unintentional and a result of simply living one's normal life, and the other is neither of those things.

It's also somewhat irrelevant since the vaccines do not prevent transmission. At best they lower the chance to some degree and now you're in the weeds of trying to measure something that's too multivariate to measure.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#286

Post by ActorNightly »

cedws wrote: post #220
cedws wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC the vaccines were provably linked to the death of young people who had blood clots they shouldn't have had. The common argument made is that the vaccine saved more lives than they took, but this is pretty fucked up IMO. It's the trolley problem IRL - if you force someone to get a vaccine and they die as a result, you are responsible for their death. Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because…

For the record, this comment is not arguing against vaccines or their veracity, there seems to have been confusion about that. I am specifically arguing against vaccine mandates.

I would also be against vaccine mandate if we also had a law where if I could prove you infected me, that would count as assault with a deadly weapon, and all the other laws that determine what I could do when someone assaults me with a deadly weapon would apply.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#287

Post by InsideOutSanta »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #282
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you apply that same standard to other things, like cars? Do you feel allowing people to drive is also society "killing for the common good"? After more than eight billion doses of the vaccine, about twenty deaths were causally linked to the vaccine. Five times as many people die every day from traffic in the US alone, many of them children. What about gun ownership? How many people does that "kill for the common g…

Cars and gun ownership were not mandated by the government.

Yes, they are. I'm mandated by the government to live in a country that has cars and gun ownership.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#288

Post by blub »

yieldcrv wrote: post #56

> The researchers emphasize that, like all vaccines, mRNA vaccines can have side effects. They found that serious adverse events—such as myocarditis, which occurs more frequently in younger males—are rare and consistently outweighed by the vaccines’ protection reminder to the myocarditis-maxxies, the actual virus causes that too and the 2020-2021 variants caused it worse if we were all going to drop dead (I think 2 y…

Myocarditis-maxxies will likely never take off as an insult, but vaxmaxxer just might :) Shortness, pronunciation and simplicity all play a role.

Anyway, that statement is actually useless. The moment it became clear that some vaccine increases the risk of myocarditis, several European countries swapped them out for the less risky variants, like any sane person would.

The only people still fighting these windmills are the online kind.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#289

Post by thisisit »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #279
thisisit wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, the manufacturers can never be held responsible, because they have legal immunity for the COVID vaccines. There is remedy against vaccine harm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen... This was passed in response to claims against DPT vaccine and manufacturers stopping production of the said vaccine. Lawmakers feared loss of herd immunity and passed the law. Now vaccine skeptics say thi…

Perhaps "vaccine skeptics" say this because the Covid vaccines are not covered under VICP. They're covered under CICP, which is more stringent and has paid out one person $6 million, and a few hundred grand spread out between some dozen others. My friend who was diagnosed, by multiple doctors in two hospitals with Myocarditis caused by the vaccine has yet to receive any money. It ruined his career. "Tyranny of the mi…

> They're covered under CICP, which is more stringent and has paid out one person $6 million, and a few hundred grand spread out between some dozen others.

This is trying to play both sides. Appeal to emotion without having a rational thought process. Something bad happening is unfortunate and life changing. Then turning around and saying hundred grand isn’t life changing money for people.

What exactly is your remedy here - should people be not asked to provide proof for the harm and paid 10s of millions for every case? People have been asked proof for lesser things and paid even lesser for much bigger harm.

> My friend who was diagnosed, by multiple doctors in two hospitals with Myocarditis caused by the vaccine has yet to receive any money. It ruined his career.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence of systematic wrongdoing. At least I wouldn’t expect to see on HN but here we are.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#290

Post by defrost »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #287
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars and gun ownership were not mandated by the government.

Yes, they are. I'm mandated by the government to live in a country that has cars and gun ownership.

Your government refuses to let you leave the country?

That aside, they also command you to own both a car and a gun?

Post reply on HN