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Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise

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Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#181

Post by what »

bsder wrote: post #162
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

> If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. Hogwash. Wakefield predated anything Covid. And measles vaccines aren't mRNA and people would rather let their children die. Had Trump and Co called the vaccine part of the second coming, people would be lining up at their churches to get them. You can't reason some…

Trump did tell people to get them? It was his opposition saying they wouldn’t trust a vaccine pushed out by Trump. You’ve basically rewritten history.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#182

Post by s1artibartfast »

bsder wrote: post #162
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

> If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. Hogwash. Wakefield predated anything Covid. And measles vaccines aren't mRNA and people would rather let their children die. Had Trump and Co called the vaccine part of the second coming, people would be lining up at their churches to get them. You can't reason some…

I dont think people's motivations are to kill their children, but the opposite. I think this is the starting point for developing cognitive empathy and an accurate model.

Again, trust is a huge factor here.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#183

Post by estearum »

timr wrote: post #37
petilon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many people know that Trump had a hand in starting the pandemic. Here's what we know: In 2014, Obama administration halted the so called "gain of function" research because of risk of laboratory accidents. In 2017, the Trump administration restarted this dangerous research. See links below. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/white-house-to-cut-fun... Excerpt: [Obama administration] White House announced Friday…

Well, I have to say that this is the most innovative leap of partisan politics I’ve seen so far this year! Most left-wing critics are still struggling with admitting that Anthony Fauci really did provide funding to EcoHealth, despite ample documentation.

I haven't seen anyone at all dispute that NIH funded EcoHealth lol

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#184

Post by hackingonempty »

petilon wrote: post #29
timr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This administration literally fast-tracked the original covid vaccines for approval. Say what you will about the Covid vaccine or Kennedy’s specific motivations (which I disagree with), but choosing to cut government funding for development of wildly profitable pharmaceutical products is a reasonable choice.

Not many people know that Trump had a hand in starting the pandemic. Here's what we know: In 2014, Obama administration halted the so called "gain of function" research because of risk of laboratory accidents. In 2017, the Trump administration restarted this dangerous research. See links below. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/white-house-to-cut-fun... Excerpt: [Obama administration] White House announced Friday…

> The EcoHealth Alliance, in turn, provided funding to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China for researching bat coronaviruses. The rest is history.

The WIV is 20km from the Huanan market where the pandemic started. There is no direct evidence linking the emergence of SARS-CoV-2 to laboratory work conducted at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.[0] The evidence for zoonotic origin with multiple spillover events at the Huanan market is overwhelming.

This is just one review.

[0] https://www.annualreviews.org/content/journals/10.1146/annur...

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#185

Post by cedws »

estearum wrote: post #177
cedws wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthy children and young adults were at very little risk from COVID though. Seatbelts are a safety measure that applies almost uniformly across age groups.

Yes, they were at low risk. They were actually at far lower risk of harm from the vaccines. It was and remains statistically correct to vaccinate young people.

Yes, but the crux of my original point was not about absolute number of lives saved or lost. It was about the trolley problem and mandates.

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#186

Post by estearum »

vfclists wrote: post #132
manwe150 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would repeating a study now and getting the same result as when it was first measured in 2020 be a reason to doubt the safety? I’m also pro-vax, so I don’t think it is correct to equate ignoring the preponderance of current evidence (in 2021 or 2026) for vaccine protection as being careful. That just seems the logical fallacy sold by “vax hesitant” and social media influencers to make people feel smart to ignore…

What does being "pro-vax" mean? That you believe in any claims of vaccine efficacy made by the manufacturers or the FDA and are more then willing to have them injected into your body?

It probably means that you take the statistical evidence produced by massive double-blinded placebo-controlled randomized clinical trials as actual evidence

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#187

Post by [deleted] »

raincole wrote: post #138
tlogan wrote: post #130

If these mRNA vaccines had not been pushed or mandated, more people would probably think they are safe: there will be no need for any of these reviews. But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. That trust was not lost because of one big decision.…

> But because they were pushed by the government, many people do not trust them. Sure, they were pushed and mandated for good reasons, but the problem is that a lot of people have already lost trust in the government. In the case of COVID, the effectiveness of vaccines was quite exaggerated at first[0]. That absolutely didn't help government rebuild the trust. > I do not know how this trust can be rebuilt but definit…

[deleted]

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#188

Post by estearum »

vfclists wrote: post #127
epistasis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even during the pandemic response it was eventually acknowledged that early claims of vaccines preventing infection or even spread weren't supported by the trials. To the very best of my knowledge this is just misinformation. If you have a citation here, please provide it.

Where are the citations supporting your view that the vaccines were effective at preventing infection?

You can look up the clinical trial results

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#189

Post by estearum »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #140
epistasis wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They confirmed this when the vaccines were authorized. And as part of every drug, there's continual, ongoing, review of the data to ensure that safety is maintained, and that nothing has changed about the drug and its manufacturing. This is the "phase 4" of a drug, continual ongoing monitoring.

> They confirmed this when the vaccines were authorized No. They didn’t. They said it. You were the Phase3 trial. You can probably debate the ethicality, the decisions made, but do not pretend they had 5 year data before deploying to the entire world. Facts matter.

You're aware that most drugs are approved without 5-year data, correct? Why did you draw the line there? Why not wait for 10-year data? What about 20- or 50- or 100-year data?

Do we need 75-year data for Viagra too?

30-year data for aspirin?

What's the logic tree here?

Re: Global review confirms mRNA vaccines are safe, effective and full of promise 

#190

Post by estearum »

cedws wrote: post #185
estearum wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they were at low risk. They were actually at far lower risk of harm from the vaccines. It was and remains statistically correct to vaccinate young people.

Yes, but the crux of my original point was not about absolute number of lives saved or lost. It was about the trolley problem and mandates.

But the trolley problem doesn't make sense here. The statistically correct thing to do, in nearly all cases for nearly all people, both for themselves and for their community (separately!), was to get vaccinated.
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