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Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#161

Post by incompatible »

arjie wrote: post #121

This is the dream of microtransactions and agents-paying-for-access that so many people have always wanted. It was never going to be implemented on existing payment rails so it would have to be something like this. I can't wait to see it in play somewhere because I am increasingly annoyed that I have to own API keys on various platforms etc. etc. I just want my agent to make decisions and spend a limited amount of mo…

A dream for some, a nightmare for others. People locked out from much of the Internet because they don't have enough money. Of course, the prices would usually be set at whatever maximises revenue, just check out scientific journal publishing.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#162

Post by anonym29 »

wmf wrote: post #152
xlayn wrote: post #118

X402... I was not aware, I had this idea of making HTTP connection depend on a monero transaction, the monero transaction should take around 3 secs of the average computer/cellphone... once you have paid that you can access the resource. You wanna crawl the whole internet non stop, you pay non stop, 3 secs is probably the same as we pay in ads for those without adblockers and then content generators can start getting…

It's stablecoins not Monero.

Stablecoins: All of the complexity of cryptocurrency with all of the downsides of CBDC

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#163

Post by cphoover »

IgorPartola wrote: post #158
cphoover wrote: post #111

This doesn't seem to solve the issue that website operators face... which is providing a free public experience to humans while the price of hosting is driven up by increased bot traffic. The issue isn't charging for API access with request caps, that's not hard to do. It's preserving the free experience for our users while our traffic is increasingly made up of bots. The problem is that AI has made it increasingly d…

Options: 1. Any cost of browsing an e-commerce site is taken off the next purchase, whenever it happens. 2. Give each user 100 free page viewed per day or some such before you charge. 3. You don’t actually have to charge users for browsing the site if you provide a free or cheap API allowing bots to search and index your entire catalog. Agents and bots would certainly rather parse a kilobyte of JSON than 20 megabytes…

That's just going to be a really different from the shopping experience customer's are used to today, and I don't think customers would go for it. I know for at company asking customers to pay for the shopping experience would be a non-starter... If bot traffic became untenable we would probably do something like required account creation + sms verification, and even that would be a huge change in expectations for our customers.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#164

Post by cedws »

incompatible wrote: post #161
arjie wrote: post #121

This is the dream of microtransactions and agents-paying-for-access that so many people have always wanted. It was never going to be implemented on existing payment rails so it would have to be something like this. I can't wait to see it in play somewhere because I am increasingly annoyed that I have to own API keys on various platforms etc. etc. I just want my agent to make decisions and spend a limited amount of mo…

A dream for some, a nightmare for others. People locked out from much of the Internet because they don't have enough money. Of course, the prices would usually be set at whatever maximises revenue, just check out scientific journal publishing.

Conversely this has the potential to unlock the internet. How often have you clicked a paywalled link on HN and moved on because you don't want to go through the hassle and pay $20 to read an article? If you could be frictionlessly billed 10c to read the article instead, wouldn't you be more willing?

I'm actually OK with paying a fair price for the content I consume, I just don't want to be paying hundreds of subscriptions for websites that I might only visit twice a year.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#166

Post by incompatible »

cedws wrote: post #164
incompatible wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A dream for some, a nightmare for others. People locked out from much of the Internet because they don't have enough money. Of course, the prices would usually be set at whatever maximises revenue, just check out scientific journal publishing.

Conversely this has the potential to unlock the internet. How often have you clicked a paywalled link on HN and moved on because you don't want to go through the hassle and pay $20 to read an article? If you could be frictionlessly billed 10c to read the article instead, wouldn't you be more willing? I'm actually OK with paying a fair price for the content I consume, I just don't want to be paying hundreds of subscri…

Presumably, nobody would offer the 10c per page unless they were making more than the $20 / month or whatever previously. So people will be paying more. Then add all the sites that currently just get what they can with advertising, and now they can become pay-per-view.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#167

Post by charcircuit »

socketcluster wrote: post #141
mixedbit wrote: post #67

With payments the complexity is not only in accepting a payment, but largely in doing so legally. Someone makes a request to my company's paid service, I return 402 and get a stable coin back. Who do I invoice for this revenue? What value added tax do I apply to the invoice? If someone makes 10k paid requests within one month, do I have means of generating one invoice for them for all the usage, or is every request t…

That seems to make the case stronger. It becomes Cloudflare's problem. You can deal with Cloudflare from one country and let them figure out how to collect payment from people all over. That said, morally, I strongly resent the fact that accepting payment has essentially become illegal for most people due to this complexity and the way globalization has been forced on people. People are essentially not allowed to rec…

>globalization

You can have this problem even if you target a single state in the US.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#168

Post by IgorPartola »

cphoover wrote: post #163
IgorPartola wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options: 1. Any cost of browsing an e-commerce site is taken off the next purchase, whenever it happens. 2. Give each user 100 free page viewed per day or some such before you charge. 3. You don’t actually have to charge users for browsing the site if you provide a free or cheap API allowing bots to search and index your entire catalog. Agents and bots would certainly rather parse a kilobyte of JSON than 20 megabytes…

That's just going to be a really different from the shopping experience customer's are used to today, and I don't think customers would go for it. I know for at company asking customers to pay for the shopping experience would be a non-starter... If bot traffic became untenable we would probably do something like required account creation + sms verification, and even that would be a huge change in expectations for ou…

Well it sounds like it’s either that or tragedy of the commons where Amazon et al needs to charge higher and higher prices due to inefficient bots constantly crawling their site. Also consumers are already about to change how they shop. In 3 years nobody will be firing up the browser to go to Amazon.com. They will be asking an agent to “buy the cheapest 3 ply toilet paper from a brand name and some decent flossers. Spend no more than $30 total.” For this kind of shopping the cost of the search is built into the purchase price one way or another.

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#169

Post by incompatible »

mxuribe wrote: post #114

So, the snake oil salesman in me immediately wonders if this will become the new landscape for spam....It might go something like the following... 1. Establish domain names and relevant cloudflare account including the monetization gateway (associated rules, etc.). 2. Then host a ton of crap content across a wide swath of topics...not even decent quality...merely a step above old school style SEO keywords...just enou…

"host a ton of crap content across a wide swath of topics.."

But how will anybody know it's there?

Re: Monetization Gateway: Charge for any resource behind Cloudflare via x402

#170

Post by hightrix »

Catloafdev wrote: post #18

This feels like a 'Horse Armor' moment. I expect much more of this type of thing going forward.

100%. I couldn't hate this more.

If this catches on and is widespread, the internet as we know it will be completely dead.

No, I don't want to pay for links I click on, ever. Sorry.

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