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Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

propublica.org

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Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#21

Post by al_borland »

andriy_koval wrote: post #20
al_borland wrote: post #5

Is this article trying to make me feel bad for these people? > Frank Athen Walls was an American serial killer and rapist who committed five murders between 1985 and 1987 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_A._Walls > Willacy attempted to strangle Sather with a telephone cord, and when that didn't work, he doused her in gasoline and set her on fire, records show. An autopsy determined that Sather had died from smoke…

> Is this article trying to make me feel bad for these people? Its so loaded question. You picked two cases, while ignoring huge flaws of the system, because of which there is a chance innocent people get executed. Frank Athen Walls is likely very different person today compared to what he was 40 years ago, what is the rational to execute him now?

They probably should have just executed him 40 years ago. What took so long?

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#22

Post by netsharc »

nielsbot wrote: post #9
theflyingelvis wrote: post #8

Protip, don’t murder someone in Florida.

So you're ok with the state killing criminals? What if they get the wrong person?

If they punish the wrong guy, the judge should get the death penalty... Or if the prosecutor asks for it, and it after the execution it turns out there's an error in their case, it's the prosecutor's head next. So you better present a bulletproof case if you're asking for an execution.

(I'm against the death penalty, but who wants to run the thought experiment?)

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#23

Post by worried4future »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #14
worried4future wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you have compassion, love even, for someone who has been the victim of horrific acts? Honest question, what are your limits of compassion? Do you have compassion, love, or have you given a thought to the next victim of these criminals?

Yes, I feel compassion for the victims of horrific crimes too. I can hold both of them in my heart at the same time. Simultaneously, I can understand the desire for the closure that comes with enacting the death penalty while being completely against it.

Its not about vengeance or a desire for closure, I simply do not want these people to continue to exist. They offer no benefit to my society, they contribute nothing beneficial and never will, the sooner they are erased the better for society.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#24

Post by worried4future »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #16
worried4future wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you're ok with the state killing criminals? Yes. > What if they get the wrong person? Don't kill those.

We seem to be incapable of creating a perfect predictor - there will always be false positives. How do you square the moral implications of killing people by chance?

I do not seek perfection.

We have a justice system which makes those determinations, its not about perfection, it never has been.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#25

Post by worried4future »

antonymoose wrote: post #19
kelseyfrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be incapable of creating a perfect predictor - there will always be false positives. How do you square the moral implications of killing people by chance?

I’ve long seen this class of conversation on HN and my answer is always the same: introduce a higher burden of proof, maybe even “no doubt,” for capital punishment. Imagine a scenario where the Pulse nightclub shooter surrendered to police and was on death row now. There is no doubt at all that he did the killing. Why waste calories concerned for a demon like that?

I'm fine with that if we can remove the technical error rate and barriers to actually executing these people.

If you're caught in a situation like this you should not be in jail on death row for twenty years waiting for your execution while your lawyers try to find some narrow legal loophole to postpone your execution.

E.g. Iryna Zarutska's killer (Decarlos Dejuan Brown). He should be dead already.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#26

Post by kelseyfrog »

worried4future wrote: post #23
kelseyfrog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I feel compassion for the victims of horrific crimes too. I can hold both of them in my heart at the same time. Simultaneously, I can understand the desire for the closure that comes with enacting the death penalty while being completely against it.

Its not about vengeance or a desire for closure, I simply do not want these people to continue to exist. They offer no benefit to my society, they contribute nothing beneficial and never will, the sooner they are erased the better for society.

Why would I choose to believe that my existence is predicated on my value to society?

The modern project has been one of establishing a reality where individual moral status is inherent, rather than tied to God, the state, ethnicity, or social worth. I don't see a series of steps that would take me from my current stance to any of those. I'd have to overcome a very real moral revulsion.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#27

Post by kelseyfrog »

worried4future wrote: post #24
kelseyfrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be incapable of creating a perfect predictor - there will always be false positives. How do you square the moral implications of killing people by chance?

I do not seek perfection. We have a justice system which makes those determinations, its not about perfection, it never has been.

How do you deal with innocents being killed by the state? The cost of doing business? Something else?

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#28

Post by nielsbot »

worried4future wrote: post #24
kelseyfrog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We seem to be incapable of creating a perfect predictor - there will always be false positives. How do you square the moral implications of killing people by chance?

I do not seek perfection. We have a justice system which makes those determinations, its not about perfection, it never has been.

So murdering innocent people is just the cost of doing business? That’s inhumane and fucked.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#29

Post by rbanffy »

Jiro wrote: post #3
rbanffy wrote: post #2

Just imagine how empty and devoid of meaning is the life of someone who goes to a prison and blasts “Another One Bites the Dust” to celebrate the execution of someone they never met. Don't they have anyone they'd rather spend time with? Or does anyone else want to spend time with them?

This is probably the case for 80% of all jobs. People having fulfilling jobs is the exception, not the rule.

This is not his job. It seems to be his life’s mission.

Re: Florida Is Executing Prisoners at a Record Pace

#30

Post by rbanffy »

Jtsummers wrote: post #4
rbanffy wrote: post #2

Just imagine how empty and devoid of meaning is the life of someone who goes to a prison and blasts “Another One Bites the Dust” to celebrate the execution of someone they never met. Don't they have anyone they'd rather spend time with? Or does anyone else want to spend time with them?

It's even sadder than that, he does this alone. He can't even find someone to counterprotest with him. > The counterprotester, meanwhile, a lean retiree named Bill Campbell, tried to drown out the sound with a boom box blasting “Another One Bites the Dust.” [emphasis mine] Not "One of the" or "Some" or "Among the counterprotesters", just the one lone counterprotester whose life is so devoid of meaning that he has cho…

I am sure we can all guess how he votes.
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