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European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

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Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#91

Post by axus »

Zagitta wrote: post #64
Chu4eeno wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMA seems explicitly written to only target monopolies, though (and seems like a surrender from the EU, since monopolies should be broken up and not get laws codifying their business models IMHO).

Can you imagine the collective screeching, across the White house, HN and Apple reality distortion field, that'd happen if EU attempted to breakup the American monopolies? Electing to not do something impossible and framing it as a surrender is strange to me.

The countries that let Donald Trump's screeching dictate their policies don't fare any better than those who ignore it.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#92

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Luker88 wrote: post #36

The EU reference for wallets strictly required google play services https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro... So Italy's IO app https://github.com/pagopa/io-app (wallet, documents, age verification) continuously refuses the users' request for GrapheneOS support and requires google. Nothing will change until the lawsuits start coming in. The only hope is the motorola/grapheneOS collaboration and…

The issue isn't just the technical dependency.

It's also the fact that it forces each citizen to pay a few hundred Euros to companies which then campaign against their very rights.

Citizens get no support of any kind in case of issues, and has to enter a contractual agreement which is ridiculously asymmetrical, where the company has little to no responsibility of any kind, but has very ample rights to track the other party in extremely creepy ways.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#93

Post by throwwwll »

hypeatei wrote: post #85
maybewhenthesun wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. Because the theories about elastic markets and monopolies do have a high 'spherical frictionless cow` smell. And they are posed here as gospel. So while it might be a bit of an ad hominem to frame someone as a 120 year old it does succinctly point out a problem and hence adds information.

> And they are posed here as gospel The same could be said for people who suggest regulation for every problem that comes up, even for problems that were caused by regulation. Maybe we have our blindspots, but the "regulate everything" crowd is much louder and more prevalent on HN than the free market absolutists.

Here's another ad-hominem (to another poster), cause you guys just cannot argue in good faith: Spoken like a true American who had long-forgotten nuance exists.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#94

Post by jesterson »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #83
71bw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this does not allow tracking nor marketing, so why would they do that?

Because of Digital Sovereignty concerns?

You don't think anyone in EU bureaucracy has any concerns regarding Digital Sovereignty, do you?

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#95

Post by teekert »

Luker88 wrote: post #36

The EU reference for wallets strictly required google play services https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro... So Italy's IO app https://github.com/pagopa/io-app (wallet, documents, age verification) continuously refuses the users' request for GrapheneOS support and requires google. Nothing will change until the lawsuits start coming in. The only hope is the motorola/grapheneOS collaboration and…

Motorola/GrapheneOS, and FairPhone/e/OS.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#96

Post by psychoslave »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #53
cjrp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> building a worse version of AWS just so that it is "European" makes no financial sense Unless it becomes necessary because of EU regulation?

Hopefully not. This hate towards good technology and innovation because you don’t like the current president is ridiculous. He’ll be gone in two years or so and then we’ll get back to normal.

As things are moving, there's currently no garantee that Trump won't hold his promise US citizen will never have to vote again.

And even if the bipartisan system make a small turn over, the issue is systemic.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#97

Post by blitzar »

realusername wrote: post #40
clarionbell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. EU is actually trying to decouple. But in many cases there are not any homegrown alternatives to support. There is not a single company in EU that could replace, even a considerable part, of software stack provided by Google and Apple. And, unless the regulatory environment changes., there probably never will be.

How much money did the EU finance towards alternatives last year then? I hear them complaining but for now, the alternatives are mostly run by hobbyists. We're starting from so low that even a few dozen millions would help a lot.

> €2 billion over seven years to fund alternatives to proprietary software

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#98

Post by throwwwll »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #81
throwwwll wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I mean, has there any empirical evidence disproven any of those base assumptions? In econ the easiest part is to create a model, the hardest part is seeing it crash against reality. But the basis of monopolies seems to be pretty thoroughly tested. The biggest issues you have now are Chesterton Fence's. Were its hard to know what laws and regulations are therefore safety, parity and economic performance and ones are o…

> where are the proofs

> I know "chesterton fence", I smart

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#99

Post by w3ll_w3ll_w3ll »

etiennebausson wrote: post #76
esrauch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not 1% here though... Graphene has 300k users worldwide. There's 8 million absolutely illiterate and 150 million functionally illiterate people in Europe for comparison on scale here.

>150 million functionally illiterate people in Europe 1/3 of the population functionally illiterate in Europe seems beyond wild to me. Are you talking about technical illiteracy? security illiteracy? Or do you mean they can't read english, which is a very different thing.

Functionally illiterate means that they can read in their own language, but they cannot understand the meaning, a part from very simple things.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#100

Post by tgv »

expedition32 wrote: post #88
m4xp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is too much corruption, nothing can be done at this point. Atleast CIE app works on graphene for now so I can do everything else on the web. If they block that idk what I would even do.

Don't assume corruption for something that can be attributed to not giving a fuck.

I do occasionally suspect corruption, but neither Google nor Apple have any incentive to pay off officials to get this passed. They can't beat each other, and the rest of the mobile OS'es is no threat to their revenue.
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