Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 577 posts

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#171

Post by bawolff »

jeffbee wrote: post #160
nl wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link above literally says: > Conspiracy to Conceal Documents (Count 12) and other objects that would implicate Maricela Rueda in the riot and shooting at the Prairieland facility. > Defendants convicted: Sanchez Estrada and Maricela Rueda Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants, but I think the GP poster's point is pretty valid: > Being aware that he was moving the zin…

Yeah, but I think the question is whether his actions did in fact obstruct justice. Both are relevant.

I don't know that i agree. If you intend to commit a crime but due to circumstances beyond your knowladge your actions did not amount to the crime even though you intended them to, i think that is still a crime.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#172

Post by vel0city »

bawolff wrote: post #167
Chinjut wrote: post #148

A lot of people in these Hacker News comments are accepting the framing that moving the zines is evidence tampering and therefore deserves a 30 year sentence. What crime are zines evidence of?

I don't think that is the relavent question. Did he move the items because he believed that they were evidence being sought by the police? I don't really care if they are actually evidence of something or not. I care if the accused believed they were and moved them for that purpose.

Let's say someone is driving 35MPH. They think "oh snap, I think the speed limit is 30MPH here!". The posted speed limit is actually 40MPH.

Was this person speeding or not? Should a cop ticket them for thinking they're doing something wrong, even if everything they were doing was legal?

Did they even think the zines were implicated as evidence? Were the zines implicated as evidence? What crimes were being committed by ownership of these zines?

If there's a warrant issued to search a house, and a resident of that house eats a ham sandwich for lunch while the cops are on their way, did they destroy evidence?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#173

Post by expedition32 »

stevenwoo wrote: post #159
expedition32 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chilling effect on demonstrations. If you attend one were someone starts shooting you become an accomplice. And ofcourse this also leaves the door open for a "false flag" incident.

Unless one is a right wing protestor like Kyle Rittenhouse.

[flagged]

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#174

Post by AdieuToLogic »

nl wrote: post #150
customguy wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way could that possibly have obstructed that investigation?

The link above literally says: > Conspiracy to Conceal Documents (Count 12) and other objects that would implicate Maricela Rueda in the riot and shooting at the Prairieland facility. > Defendants convicted: Sanchez Estrada and Maricela Rueda Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants, but I think the GP poster's point is pretty valid: > Being aware that he was moving the zin…

> Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants ...

True, that is their job.

Problem is, it is the judge's job to determine appropriate punishment for the crime once it is proven the defendant is responsible for same.

30 years (360 months) for a first time offender is roughly equivalent to Second Degree Murder (see section 2A1.2 here[0]). Even assuming the defendant has 13 or more felony convictions, this sentence would be roughly equivalent to Child Exploitation Enterprises (see section 2G2.6 here[0]).

The calculation of sentence length is based on the 2025 guidelines published here[1].

0 - https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu...

1 - https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu...

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#175

Post by BobbyJo »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #157
BobbyJo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fighting the executive branch, then legality goes out the window and any outrage about punishment becomes moot, no? Expecting the system you intended to subvert/dismantle to save you is a bit of a weird ask.

Not at all? To the American founders that would be a psychotic take that is completely at odds with the founding principles of this country. Have you read about the Continental Congress? They thought pretty hard about these questions. They did not engage in insurrection (what would surely today be called "terrorism") against the crown lightly and without great consideration. You should take the opportunity of the 250…

I'm sorry, I meant in terms of discussion, not in terms of legal proceedings. Obviously these people were formally charged in a court of law on legal grounds and I assume had their constitutional rights afforded to them.

I meant more along the lines of "30 years for hiding a zine" being a weird take. It is logically inconsistent, IMO, to both want to fight a system, and want to be afforded its privileges.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#176

Post by devmor »

paisawalla wrote: post #52
devmor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I read, the person who was arrested for transporting zines was not even at the protest or part of the group - just the husband of one of the protestors.

[flagged]

Well then it’s a great thing that no one attempted to do that.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#177

Post by BobbyJo »

vel0city wrote: post #172
bawolff wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is the relavent question. Did he move the items because he believed that they were evidence being sought by the police? I don't really care if they are actually evidence of something or not. I care if the accused believed they were and moved them for that purpose.

Let's say someone is driving 35MPH. They think "oh snap, I think the speed limit is 30MPH here!". The posted speed limit is actually 40MPH. Was this person speeding or not? Should a cop ticket them for thinking they're doing something wrong, even if everything they were doing was legal? Did they even think the zines were implicated as evidence? Were the zines implicated as evidence? What crimes were being committed b…

It's not illegal "because you think its illegal", it's illegal because "you had a court order to provide things that are relevant and you instead hid things you thought were relevant".

If I hide someone who I think did a crime to help them escape police, I've now implicated myself in the crime, whether or not my trying to hide them actually caused them to get away with it.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#178

Post by ipython »

aand16 wrote: post #170
ipython wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“That guy” had a name. His name was Alex Pretti. He was disarmed before he was shot in the head. He was not even holding his weapon at any point. Are you implying that simply carrying a legal firearm while at a protest means you can be murdered, without any subsequent investigation? Again the Overton window has shifted so far just in my lifetime. This would have been front page news with congressional investigations…

[flagged]

There will be no investigation at least for the foreseeable future. ICE and the federal government are actively stonewalling any attempt at one! I'd love to see an investigation. (see news reports: https://www.npr.org/2026/04/10/nx-s1-5775847/alex-pretti-ren... and the statement from the Minnesota authorities: https://dps.mn.gov/news/bca/statement-bca-superintendent-dre...)

In fact, the federal government is using intimidation tactics to individuals who do nothing other than try to name the ICE agents who have murdered US citizens. Just a few days ago, armed ICE agents confronted a poll worker at a polling site in Syracuse NY to warn her about a social media post where she simply named the ICE agent who killed Renee Good: https://apnews.com/article/ice-poll-worker-syracuse-fa082f8a... (post in question here: https://www.instagram.com/p/DTQ1FYDkyua/)

Back to Alex, his pistol was concealed and at no point did he attempt to reach for it. There are at least a half dozen angles of video showing the entire interaction (thanks smartphones!) so it's not too hard to see for yourself from multiple vantage points.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#179

Post by dmix »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #174
nl wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link above literally says: > Conspiracy to Conceal Documents (Count 12) and other objects that would implicate Maricela Rueda in the riot and shooting at the Prairieland facility. > Defendants convicted: Sanchez Estrada and Maricela Rueda Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants, but I think the GP poster's point is pretty valid: > Being aware that he was moving the zin…

> Obviously prosecutors always present things in the worst possible way for defendants ... True, that is their job. Problem is, it is the judge's job to determine appropriate punishment for the crime once it is proven the defendant is responsible for same. 30 years (360 months) for a first time offender is roughly equivalent to Second Degree Murder (see section 2A1.2 here[0]). Even assuming the defendant has 13 or mo…

That sentence very likely won't hold up on appeal as it's obviously very very excessive and non-standard. That said, I don't believe the commenters above were defending the sentencing. They were debating whether it was a legitimate charge and whether the article explained it fairly.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#180

Post by jasonlotito »

Xorakios wrote: post #12

Here's the case: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/antifa-cell-members-con... The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation being sought under a federal warrant after being called by his wife and asking him to do so. The warrant was for documentation after the protesters shot fireworks to bring out first responders from the ICE facility, and allegedly one of the group shot a responder in the neck instead of th…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN