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30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

theintercept.com

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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#91

Post by goatlover »

paisawalla wrote: post #67
ipython wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants: - were a group of at least 1000 people - who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought zip ties and weapons - forcefully overran several capital police barricades intended to deter their entrance - used any weapon available including poles etc to violently attack any police in their way Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with…

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Give me a beak. The J6 rioters wanted to hang the Vice President and members of Congress. They had violent intent.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#92

Post by will4274 »

Ukv wrote: post #18
Xorakios wrote: post #12

Here's the case: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/antifa-cell-members-con... The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation being sought under a federal warrant after being called by his wife and asking him to do so. The warrant was for documentation after the protesters shot fireworks to bring out first responders from the ICE facility, and allegedly one of the group shot a responder in the neck instead of th…

> The 30 year sentence was for hiding documentation [...] it wasn't just "transporting Zines" As far as I can tell, the moving of zines (he was pulled over and had a box in his car) is what's being presented as "hiding documentation" - not something beyond that. > being sought under a federal warrant Timeline seems to be that a warrant was obtained after pulling him over ("Sanchez-Estrada was then arrested on state t…

Being aware that he was moving the zines to obstruct a federal felony investigation is surely relevant. Intent is an important aspect of crime.

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#93

Post by gos9 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #33
gos9 wrote: post #15

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My understanding is that aiding and abetting has to be causal and happen before the alleged crime. That doesn't seem to line up with the timeline of this case (barring the existence of secret Antifa time machines)

Incorrect

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#94

Post by goatlover »

paisawalla wrote: post #59
OutOfHere wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. None of your first three points is meant to be illegal. - coordinating using a Signal group - bringing firearms, body armor, and first aid kits to a location just outside a federal facility - taking up a concealed position along a tree line For you to even list them shows a fascist bent. As for fireworks, they might not be illegal either. The only possible crime is the shooting, and only if it was not done in se…

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ICE has behaved as violent criminals during Trump's 2nd term. Renee Good and Alex Pretty were murders. There have been other shootings ICE initiated. How many have died in ICE facilities under suspicious circumstances?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#95

Post by ipython »

joe_mamba wrote: post #85
ipython wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shifting the goal posts. I’m talking about the selective prosecution and you’ve tried to equate that with hn sentiment. Does it really matter what the double standard is for a bunch of keyboard warriors arguing over imaginary internet points? No! But it makes a shit ton of difference when the state, with a monopoly on violence and justice, makes a public showing over its double standard. That double standard has impa…

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So again the hn hypocrisy doesn’t matter. The only thing on the line for me is whether my imaginary internet points balance increases or decreases.

The feds on the other hand have the power to send you to federal prison or to pardon you and literally pay you off.

Given that we don’t have God himself running for president, we have to suffice with imperfect representation. And so yes I end up picking a side because that’s the system we have at the moment.

As to your point about “picking sides” - why aren’t you upset about the pardons yourself in that matter? Shouldn’t they be held accountable?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#96

Post by mvdtnz »

goatlover wrote: post #89
mvdtnz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was this a "demonstration" though? They turned up to a detention center in the middle of the night and launched an attack clearly with the intention of getting past the gate (text message exchanges show they had scoped out the operations of the gate, how long it takes to open/close, how long it remains open, etc). That's not really a "demonstration", no one outside of the facility would even see it. Demonstrations sh…

Are ICE detentions legal? Is what ICE under the current administration behaving legally? The shooting an officer is the one crime, assuming the protestor wasn't shot at first. This administration has repeatedly lied about these sort of events, so I have a hard time believing the official account.

How is that relevant to my comment?

Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#98

Post by will4274 »

fn-mote wrote: post #60
arjie wrote: post #5

It's pretty straightforward that if someone tells you to hide something because they've been arrested and they think it ties them to some criminal act, and then you hide it, you're an accessory to the crime. 30 years for that seems harsh though I anticipate they will be pardoned by the next Democratic Party President. Describing such an act without the obvious context is a pretty good way to point out that it's parti…

30 years for an accessory charge? For someone who did not attend the event? Sounds excessive.

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Re: 30-year sentence for transporting zines is a five-alarm fire for free speech

#99

Post by will4274 »

magenta4 wrote: post #65

Freedom of speech is absolute. It doesn't matter what the government thinks of the situation. It isn't a "crime" to move publications, even if the police think that. It's sickening how this could even possibly happen.

It's a crime to deliberately conceal another crime, whether you do it by raking leaves, deleting Internet posts, or setting your car on fire. It's called accessory after the fact.
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