Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 130 posts

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#71

Post by afavour »

nekusar wrote: post #65
holoduke wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone into childporn use uncensored models/sites deeply hidden from the public. Every single part of censorship is having a bad effect on the common world where normal people try to operate normally. The ones caught at this levels are not the interesting ones you want to catch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley Hentai depicting animated/drawn fake children means that 0 children were harmed, thus CSAM rules do not apply. My guess is that slop generated CSAM images are NOT 'child sex assault' in any way. Are they icky? Uh, hell yeah. But it seems similar to hentai here. There's nobody being sexually assaulted. Hell, there is nobody at all - just a large multi-billion arra…

How do we know the training data did not contain child sexual assault and that’s what’s used to generate “accurate” images?

“Just a multi million array of floats” could be applied to anything once it’s digitally encoded.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#72

Post by [deleted] »

nonethewiser wrote: post #13
bradley13 wrote: post #12

It's not just Europe. DMCA takedowns in the US: no liability for taking down innocent content. Really, it comes down to this: censorship is bad. Always. If someone violates the law, get a court judgement. With the judgement in hand, take down that specific material. Too much work? Tough...

Isnt taking down illegal content censorship? If not you can get around the absolute statement “censorship is always bad” by just making more things illegal. I think censorship is so clearly good in some scenarios that we would never think to even debate it. Like child porn.

[deleted]

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#73

Post by philipallstar »

nkrisc wrote: post #34
nonethewiser wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think it matters for the point im making. Child porn exists and should be censored. What are you suggesting?

I think the point they might be trying to make is that there are religious and socially conservative groups that intentionally misclassify anything even remotely related to LBTQ topics as “pornography” so that anti-pornography laws can be used to silence anyone and anything that opposes their regressive views on sexuality, as one example. So it is a line that must be tread carefully.

Can you give an example?

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#74

Post by gortok »

bradley13 wrote: post #12

It's not just Europe. DMCA takedowns in the US: no liability for taking down innocent content. Really, it comes down to this: censorship is bad. Always. If someone violates the law, get a court judgement. With the judgement in hand, take down that specific material. Too much work? Tough...

Having gone through the court system for a civil matter, I can tell you that “get a judgment” is a lot of time and money in even the easiest of cases, and let’s go at it from the person’s end who has to fight this, and let’s just focus on cases it’s a big tech company vs. a mom-and-pop or just a random person — who hasn’t actually done anything wrong. The big company has the money to sue, and now all of a sudden if you don’t want a default judgment, you have to spend money on a lawyer to fight the lawsuit, and guess what? It’s not as if it’s free to fight a lawsuit. It’s expensive to fight it.

The merits win in a lawsuit only if you don’t run out of money first.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#75

Post by poizan42 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #42
bawolff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not just Europe. DMCA takedowns in the US: no liability for taking down innocent content. Isn't it under penalty of purjury?

Only in theory. If I remember correctly, the "penalty of perjury" is applied to only some small part of the claim, which makes it easy for all but the most blatantly malicious claims (and possibly even those) to get off scot free by claiming a honest mistake.

> A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

DMCA Section 3.A v) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512

It is only the part about being authorized that is under the penalty of the perjury. You can be as malicious as you want as long as you don't falsely claim to own or represent someone who owns the rights to something.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#76

Post by nekusar »

afavour wrote: post #71
nekusar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Handley Hentai depicting animated/drawn fake children means that 0 children were harmed, thus CSAM rules do not apply. My guess is that slop generated CSAM images are NOT 'child sex assault' in any way. Are they icky? Uh, hell yeah. But it seems similar to hentai here. There's nobody being sexually assaulted. Hell, there is nobody at all - just a large multi-billion arra…

How do we know the training data did not contain child sexual assault and that’s what’s used to generate “accurate” images? “Just a multi million array of floats” could be applied to anything once it’s digitally encoded.

Its the courts job to determine burden of proof of that claim.

I'm also not a SCOTUS nor federal judge.

And if they deem it poisoned and illegal, then I guess we have more illegal numbers to deal with.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#77

Post by nextaccountic »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #66
wiether wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had this discussion many times, the conclusion we often come to is that part of the popular success of football is the scarcity and simplicity. In most sports, you have a world championship every year, meanwhile, a World Cup happens only every four years. When you have screens and stuff setup by the city to follow a World Cup, the crowds are not made of die hard football fans, the majority of people there are…

Most popular sports have world cups every four years. Basketball, cricket, rugby, volleyball, field hockey WCs are all held every four years. Some others like handball are held every two years. Cricket gets the same level of crazy support in South Asia as football does in most of the world. But the reason football gets such support in most of the world is simply because most people consider it the best sport, or the…

And to play you need literally need just a ball. This makes the sport universally accessible (maybe second to dance and martial arts). As a kid we used to play in the middle of the street, with shoes or school bags to mark the goal. In thaat context, owning a soccer ball made you some kind of royalty. (that was Brazil in the 90s btw)

But I think that kids nowadays are less interested in sports generally. Or at least I don't see kids playing in the streets nearly as much.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#79

Post by tialaramex »

nextaccountic wrote: post #77
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most popular sports have world cups every four years. Basketball, cricket, rugby, volleyball, field hockey WCs are all held every four years. Some others like handball are held every two years. Cricket gets the same level of crazy support in South Asia as football does in most of the world. But the reason football gets such support in most of the world is simply because most people consider it the best sport, or the…

And to play you need literally need just a ball. This makes the sport universally accessible (maybe second to dance and martial arts). As a kid we used to play in the middle of the street, with shoes or school bags to mark the goal. In thaat context, owning a soccer ball made you some kind of royalty. (that was Brazil in the 90s btw) But I think that kids nowadays are less interested in sports generally. Or at least…

> As a kid we used to play in the middle of the street, with shoes or school bags to mark the goal.

"Jumpers for goalposts" is the phrase you'd see here in the UK, to the extent that it's essentially the catchphrase for a 90s comedy character "Ron Manager" from the Fast Show.

Re: European ISPs Want Rightsholders Held Accountable for Overblocking Damage

#80

Post by braiamp »

Arubis wrote: post #53

This strikes me as the right move, but the timing isn't lost on me. Model training companies want easier access to data, and they have a lot of money and are growing their lobbying and political influence muscles. The culture of the people should belong to _the people_. Let's make sure this doesn't just turn into a transfer of which small subset manages to profit from it.

The timing isn't lost on you, it's on the wrong galaxy. This is the regular requests for comments that the commission does on digital markets, the ISP's have been saying this since a while ago

> In a new filing to the Commission’s ongoing assessment of the Copyright in the Digital Single Market Directive, EuroISPA once again sounds the alarm, pointing out that the piracy blocking climate in some countries is getting more extreme. > > EuroISPA starts by explicitly referencing the Commission’s own conclusions. Its evaluation of the 2023 Recommendation on combating piracy of live events concluded that the measures had “limited positive effects” and did not lead to a substantial reduction in piracy.

They are literally saying the commission that the law is being applied in a lopsided way and to start doing the counter-balance of that.

Post reply on HN