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Tidal AI Policy

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Re: Tidal AI Policy

#301

Post by janalsncm »

delis-thumbs-7e wrote: post #273
janalsncm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your response to Tidal’s statement > Artificial intelligence and machine learning are not new to music creation, they have just become more commonplace and advanced In other words, there is no bright line. AI techniques have been a part of music creation from the start. What makes bad AI music hard to detect and remove is the fact that it is a much closer approximation of regular music.

As always, what is AI? I have used algorithmic machine learning tools to help in mixing and mastering tracks years ago. Generative music has existed in some sense as long as electronically amplified music has. These all at heart have some human sensibility directing them to wards communication with other people ac part of rhe socio-cultural language of humanity music and art are. However, startups providing at massiv…

Strongly agree that AI is underspecified. Better name is probably “automation” which at least makes it clear that it depends on what is being automated.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#302

Post by thewebguyd »

giglamesh wrote: post #161
bunderbunder wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the flood really is overwhelming. This weekend my mom was complaining about having trouble finding anything actually good to read on Kindle Unlimited. I mentioned that the relative lack of slop is one of the major reasons I chose Kobo over Kindle. Even before this latest AI boom I was already starting to view less content as a feature, not a bug, because it seems that on subscription services “more” is increasing…

I don't follow this rule strictly, but for most of my adult life I've limited most of my book reading to books > 10 years old. If it still seems remotely relevant and worth reading ten years later, it is far less likely to be a waste of my time. Now sure I'm a bit less prepared for water cooler conversations, but overall the policy has served me well. > having trouble finding anything actually good to read on Kindle…

> reading to books > 10 years old

I've found myself applying this rule, sometimes unintentionally, to almost all media I consume. It's now a very rare occasion that there's something new that I want to read, watch, or listen to. It just isn't that good, tbh. My music library is full of music from ~2018 and older, most books I enjoy are even older than that, and I can't remember the last time a movie came out that I was dying to see since about 2016-ish.

It's not like I'm intentionally filtering out for old stuff, my own tastes just seem to prefer it. Not sure if its due to my own age (I'm not that old, mid thirties), or if we've just so over optimized media for revenue extraction that its become too formulaic and boring.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#303

Post by blehn »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #252
blehn wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is already recommending tons of AI-generated electronic music. It's pretty easy to spot: It will have millions of views and the "artist's" discography will only go back to 2025 or 2026. It's usually just singles. The cover art is vague atmospheric AI-generated. The "artist" will have no presence online save for a couple instagram account with a couple posts that are also AI-generated.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist at all, I'm saying electronic music is significantly harder for AI to do than a conventional love ballad or a rock song. AI can't do "robotic" math music, it's best at sappy generic emotive stuff. (I guess this isn't at all a surprise for those that know how the musical sausage is made.)

> electronic music is significantly harder for AI to do than a conventional love ballad or a rock song

Why do you say that? I'd argue the opposite

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#304

Post by mvdtnz »

JAlexoid wrote: post #298
bko wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the flood is also due to people in general finding AI generated music passable. I may be in the minority but I like AI generated music. Do you ever really like a song in the current moment and want one almost exactly like that? Mostly for background music. I like to listen to synthwave while working and since I may listen for 10-20h a week, I hear the same songs over and over. Maybe I should be more selective…

AI generated music is good, the singing (vocals and lyrics) is typically very bad. AI generated music is also not at all original. Which scares all of the "artists" who lack originality.

> AI generated music is good, the singing (vocals and lyrics) is typically very bad.

This is a musicaly illterate position. You only find the instruments passable because you're not familiar enough with music. You hear vocals and because you have a decent understanding of what a human should sound like you can tell how bad it sounds. Anyone with a musical ear hears the same thing of the horrible AI generated instrumentals.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#305

Post by gruez »

thewebguyd wrote: post #300
gruez wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anthropic cannot tell you what you can and cannot do with the LLM's output, they do not own that, its public domain. And are they actually doing this? For instance, if you read their press releases about distillation attacks[1], they're not asserting copyright over the outputs, only alleging "fraudulent accounts". So far as I can tell they're not even engaging in legal action. [1] https://www.anthropic.com/news/dete…

They aren't taking legal action yet, no, because they have no legal ground to stand on. But they are pushing lawmakers to do something [1] They are also constantly using the word "illicit" and theft in their communications, and in their lobbying, when there nothing illicit about using model output to train another model. They are trying to create an aura of criminality where none exists. > But distillation can also b…

>They are also constantly using the word "illicit" and theft in their communications, and in their lobbying, when there nothing illicit about using model output to train another model. They are trying to create an aura of criminality where none exists.

I don't see how this is any different than say linkedin sending cease and desist letters invoking the CFAA, DMCA, and "trespass".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HiQ_Labs_v._LinkedIn#Backgroun...

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#306

Post by godwinsonsucks »

simonw wrote: post #207
Sharlin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You incentivize ragebait. Twitter pay you for how much "engagement" your tweets get now. If you post something that angers people you will get a ton of replies, quote-tweets etc. There are a whole lot of grifters on that platform making thousands of dollars a month winding people up.

[dead]

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#307

Post by paul7986 »

bko wrote: post #233
VladVladikoff wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flood of AI music on their platform is becuase people can make money off it. If you turn off that faucet you stop the flooding.

I think the flood is also due to people in general finding AI generated music passable. I may be in the minority but I like AI generated music. Do you ever really like a song in the current moment and want one almost exactly like that? Mostly for background music. I like to listen to synthwave while working and since I may listen for 10-20h a week, I hear the same songs over and over. Maybe I should be more selective…

Totally agree with Tidal (music SPAM needs to go away) and this coming from a huge lover of AI music. So much so, I only listen to my own AI music now and I'm not the only one per this Verge article https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/937059/n...

As a lifelong songwriter, using AI to produce my own melodies and lyrics lets me listen to the diary of my own life, which allows me to reminsce and realize my songs are the best songs ever for JUST me :). I dont subject others to them ... much.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#308

Post by mvdtnz »

elicash wrote: post #14

> Tidal defines AI-generated music as music that is wholly or substantially generated by generative artificial intelligence. I think this needs more clarity. I can think of a lot of different ways AI is used in music today as a part of the song generation process and not sure whether or not this definition would apply to it. They specifically mention developments in "text-prompted generation" but if anything that con…

They actually don't need to spell it out more. They can use discretion. This avoids hair-splitting from pedants like you because discretion is discretion and there's no argument.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#309

Post by brookst »

keiferski wrote: post #228
brookst wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But just how human made? We already had the “Depeche Mode isn’t real music because they just push play on a sequencer” debate 40 years ago. And lots of composers can’t play the stuff they write. But the composition is human. Then there’s emerging AI-supported music, since AI can come up with and test harmonic ideas far more sophisticated than most people. If a human’s saying “no, not that, try using an augme…

What I had in mind was, "perform it on your instruments in our studio and we'll record the performance, record the music, and add it to our platform." Probably too expensive to scale, but... it's an idea.

So, only physical musicians need apply? No composers, no guitarists who can program drum tracks but not play drums?

I honestly like your intent. But we need to find a way to include people who can write sheet music for a symphony without being able to play most of the instruments.

Re: Tidal AI Policy

#310

Post by techterrier »

keiferski wrote: post #30

I really hope someone makes a music platform in the future that is verified as human-made. Music is about connecting to human emotions, not poor facsimiles of it. Tie it to in-person concerts and it might actually work as a business, as well as logistically – maybe the company can be a record producer in disguise and physically meet every musician they host.

this is called the pub
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