Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 663 posts

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#561

Post by hellojesus »

Matumio wrote: post #540
hellojesus wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was asking the Google llm search about why iterative games don't reach their competitive equilibrium the round after revealing the theory. In my example, it was the "guess 2/3 the average game", and I asked it why my class didn't immediately converge to zero after it was explained. The llm said people are lazy and I have autism because I couldn't identify or understand the stopping criteria used by my classmates. I…

How people play those games has to do with cultural norms and expectations, not just mathematics and logic. Same for age verification.

But shouldn't the extension of logic be the same in either case, even if there is some premature convergence criteria? I have yet to see someone say age verification is okay because the gov ensure X is the maximum use of the tech. If anything, Public Choice Theory compels the grant that the gov will misuse the data given enough time.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#562

Post by buellerbueller »

ShinyLeftPad wrote: post #548
buellerbueller wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Thieves' cant, burner phone, clandestine meetings--these are all things that make crime easier, and none of them are illegal. We ban crime, not things that allow crime.

How is it complicated? Having to do these things made crime difficult. There's higher barrier to entry and cost to pay. It's more difficult to scale across borders. Not having to do them makes it easier.

The internet makes crime easier; should we ban it too? Before cars, you could only steal what you could carry--maybe we should abolish cars too. "Barrier to entry for crime" is not a useful metric, because it encompasses so many things.

Or do you want a police state?

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#563

Post by abecedarius »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #486
abecedarius wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasingly wishing for this from a fictional constitutional convention: > I note one proposal to make this Congress a two-house body. Excellent — the more impediments to legislation the better. But, instead of following tradition, I suggest one house of legislators, another whose single duty is to repeal laws . Let the legislators pass laws only with a two-thirds majority... while the repealers are able to cancel a…

Add money to politics - more accurately add even more money to politics - and see how this works out.

Concentrated interests want legislation favoring them at the expense of the easily-misled public. So what's your model by which repeal becoming less near-impossible makes the net damage from this dynamic greater.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#564

Post by remarkEon »

weberer wrote: post #238
remarkEon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t had any social media accounts since I gave it up for Lent in 2018 and I’m increasingly starting to wonder if that’s a liability for me because there’s no social graph that whatever agency would otherwise use to, idk, confirm I’m not a threat or something. The lack of a digital footprint like that may look weird.

What do you consider social media? Because I'd definitely classify this site as one.

The big ones, like Facebook, instagram, TikTok, twitter, maybe Reddit. But I suppose you’re right, the line between “messaging board” and “social media” is a little challenging to define.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#565

Post by charcircuit »

nephihaha wrote: post #483
charcircuit wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was asked due to his actions he took after he was told to stop. If he had just stopped talking after being told his time was up he would not have been asked to leave.

Five seconds is nothing. It's shorter than it took to type this message.

I don't get your point. Going over by 5 seconds didn't get him in trouble. The court can tolerate such minor mistakes as long as people are willing to behave themselves.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#566

Post by bethekidyouwant »

redmaple892 wrote: post #524

I hear these alarm bells but what I don't understand is what the solution is to non-human or state actor internet commenting or social media campaigns. Most (maybe all?) sites are full of this. Without any sort of verification - how can this ever be solved?

how were you convinced that this needs to be solved?

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#567

Post by asdff »

romankolpak wrote: post #298
onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

What’s the alternative? How do you solve the problem of not allowing children into online spaces where they shouldn’t be allowed in?

Is this even a problem?

I mean its been what three decades of internet without age verification and people can't really point to specific issues with it, just sort of gesticulates that they must be there despite the millenial generation being about as well adjusted as any other. I would say seeing a pulverized squirrel on the road with the brains scattered about in real life is far more traumatizing for a child than seeing even human on human violence and gore on the internet. Movies have done a lot to desensitize that sort of thing when it is served on a screen versus in real life where you can smell it and walk all around it.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#568

Post by stymaar »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #539
stymaar wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all, the sane chip card design will not take place. That's virtually guaranteed. As a closely related example, banks all over the world have moved away from this design to merely trust the (nonexistent) security of mobile phones. Why? Costs and convenience. Businesses are always going to favor the cheapest options, but that's why regulation exist. > Second, if you hand over a chip card, you still need to l…

The world you describe is not plausible from a technical perspective. Any kid who wants to will be able to download a tool that will enable them to surf the net like an adult. It will be as common as our access to cracked C64 games during the 1980s. The only thing to limit this in any reasonable sense is to crack down hard on all operating systems and network software. At the very least, you will need to make sure th…

> Any kid who wants to will be able to download a tool that will enable them to surf the net like an adult. It will be as common as our access to cracked C64 games during the 1980s. The only thing to limit this in any reasonable sense is to crack down hard on all operating systems and network software.

Not if they use a credit-card-like ID that embed a side-channel-resistant cryptographic chip like your credit card does. Your average teenager can't crack a credit card no matter how hard they try.

> I really believe it's dangerously naive to believe this is about the children. It's quite obvious why suddenly ominous entities are shilling for age verification, digital IDs, digital wallets, and so on (more is to come). Countries in the EU used to get valuable SIGINT from the US that prevented many serious crimes. They still get it but now they've realized that the US might not always remain aligned with them and panic because they have almost no access to modern operating systems except for buying 0-day exploits on shady black markets. They desperately need to get their foot in the door to get the right surveillance infrastructure going. At the same time, politicians are rightly worried about the influence of bots on elections.

I'm very disappointed to read this kind of tinfoil hat conspiracy theory here on HN.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#569

Post by thegrim33 »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

Devil's advocate - what's the nth-order effect of the current internet / social media setup that we currently have? How much damage is it causing? Who did the analysis on that and decided what ended up with today is the best setup?

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#570

Post by dopidopHN2 »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #65
dopidopHN2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been to a city council meeting lately ? Ever? I'm trying to push for surveillance regulation where I live. I'm there monthly. Calling your representative is the best way to realise that they don't give a fuck. Yesterday I was editing a clip of one of them lying overtly. It will be a minor inconveniences. what we call democracy is a dog and ponies show. So maybe cryptography is not that ridiculous, after all

Of course the system has a rather obvious remediation for that. You could also run for office or find a kindred spirit to support. Trying to one to one with a representative or a council just sends them a signal to not care. You're one of n constituents. Showing up to the city council meeting without bringing an exponential curve of people with you over a short enough amount of time in support of your cause simply co…

You are cute.

I'm part of org working with ACLU, EFF and actual more important and active orgs that would would not know about.

When I go to city council, its with 50 other peoples and 4 or 5 other speakers.

Its when we need to have our representative on the record.

Me and other folks in that loose network of org have forced our city to pass regulations, have our police force admit they use surveillance without oversifht, and expose their poor security practice overall.

Good luck in your comfort that your country is not broken

Post reply on HN