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Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

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Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#531

Post by mycall »

flumes_whims_ wrote: post #528
pc86 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that "the authoritarians" (read: almost every politician at every level of government, but a drastically increasing percentage the higher you go) only need to get something passed once then it is there forever. Every law should have an automatic sunset period of 1-10 years that requires it to pass the entire legislative process again, or at least both full chambers + signing.

In the saga period of Iceland, 1/3rd of the laws had to be recited orally each year in a public assembly. If we had something like that then our legal code would be a lot slimmer.

Slim is not always better once people find exploits and loopholes which helps them but hurts society at large. Sunsetting is better.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#532

Post by hellojesus »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

I was asking the Google llm search about why iterative games don't reach their competitive equilibrium the round after revealing the theory. In my example, it was the "guess 2/3 the average game", and I asked it why my class didn't immediately converge to zero after it was explained. The llm said people are lazy and I have autism because I couldn't identify or understand the stopping criteria used by my classmates. I'm still confused.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#533

Post by nosyke »

uwagar wrote: post #316

age verificiation is throttling of speech. so the internet becomes again like TV or newspaper. u can transmit with license only. not anonymously.

This isn't necessarily true as you'd actually be surprised how easy it still is to go place an anonymous ad in your local newspaper. Not all of them will allow it but quite a few still make it fairly easy.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#535

Post by nosyke »

msy wrote: post #213

I find myself in an odd predicament. For nearly all my life I would have seen all of this as an unconscionable anathema. But having watched what social media has done to our society, the tsunami of bullshit collapsing critical thought, science and reason I just don’t think civilisation can survive this without controls. Too many people are too gullible, too uncritical for it to survive without the state being able to…

you just gotta apply like maybe 10-15 seconds of critical thinking here and you too will also realize this is a bunch of nonsense

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#536

Post by fool0 »

@DrScience,@theotherhobbes,@frendziz

The title is almost obvious. Surveilance is already 24/7/365. If you're not completely appalled you haven't been paying attention.

With regards to 'democracy', as with jurors, common-sense is a mixed bag... A politician in an area close to mine ran a write-in campaign contacted ~8000+ people, got ~5k votes. The Democrat on the ballot was unknown, signed-up last minute, gave no ballot statment, didn't advertise, or canvas and won; surmisably because they were listed as Democrat.

Another, earlier, was a Democrat state representative who got redistricted out of their seat by their own party for lack of toeing the party line.

Most of my ballot here is single person for each category, Should a challenger come up... well money is speech and thus taxation is censorship, and propaganda costs. When you hear a politician speak they are psychologically projecting from their own affectual experience.

Freedom ended with the concept of allodium. We've all been slaves ever since. Don't believe that, walk nude, spouting nazi, or Stalinist slogans at work or even in your front yard or porch and see if you can pay your property tax or rent for the next period.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#538

Post by jonathanstrange »

intended wrote: post #392
jonathanstrange wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do parental software / settings and filters not work? Aren't there even approaches based on whitelisting?

One aspect is that you are pitting parents and developing brains against the most over-designed products humanity has created. A second order effect of this is that a small number of parents have the ability to manage their kids use of tech. A side effect of that is kids seeing their peers use tech. I’ve seen 9 month babies getting hypnotized by screens. This is excluding situations with an antagonist preying on the…

> Yes, in an ideal world, it would all go down to parenting. Since we live in reality, some of that work is shifting to ensuring defaults are in place.

No, they aren't in place at all. It's the parents' job and vast majority of parents do it fine. Nobody wants the Nanny state you propagate.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#539

Post by jonathanstrange »

stymaar wrote: post #294
jonathanstrange wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the sane chip card design will not take place. That's virtually guaranteed. As a closely related example, banks all over the world have moved away from this design to merely trust the (nonexistent) security of mobile phones. Why? Costs and convenience. Second, if you hand over a chip card, you still need to lock down and tightly control every executable on every machine. How else would you guarantee tha…

> First of all, the sane chip card design will not take place. That's virtually guaranteed. As a closely related example, banks all over the world have moved away from this design to merely trust the (nonexistent) security of mobile phones. Why? Costs and convenience. Businesses are always going to favor the cheapest options, but that's why regulation exist. > Second, if you hand over a chip card, you still need to l…

The world you describe is not plausible from a technical perspective. Any kid who wants to will be able to download a tool that will enable them to surf the net like an adult. It will be as common as our access to cracked C64 games during the 1980s. The only thing to limit this in any reasonable sense is to crack down hard on all operating systems and network software.

At the very least, you will need to make sure that no child can install Linux. Otherwise, why wouldn't they? Most kids aren't stupid and want to know what their braindead parents are doing on the internet.

I really believe it's dangerously naive to believe this is about the children. It's quite obvious why suddenly ominous entities are shilling for age verification, digital IDs, digital wallets, and so on (more is to come). Countries in the EU used to get valuable SIGINT from the US that prevented many serious crimes. They still get it but now they've realized that the US might not always remain aligned with them and panic because they have almost no access to modern operating systems except for buying 0-day exploits on shady black markets. They desperately need to get their foot in the door to get the right surveillance infrastructure going. At the same time, politicians are rightly worried about the influence of bots on elections.

These are the principal reason why governments are suddenly pushing for this. If this was about the children, they'd have done it 30 years earlier. Until very recently, this discussion didn't even exist. It's manufactured.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#540

Post by Matumio »

hellojesus wrote: post #532
onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

I was asking the Google llm search about why iterative games don't reach their competitive equilibrium the round after revealing the theory. In my example, it was the "guess 2/3 the average game", and I asked it why my class didn't immediately converge to zero after it was explained. The llm said people are lazy and I have autism because I couldn't identify or understand the stopping criteria used by my classmates. I…

How people play those games has to do with cultural norms and expectations, not just mathematics and logic. Same for age verification.
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