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Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

nonogra.ph

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Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#401

Post by iamnothere »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #204
MaKey wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes good faith, which doesn't match reality. It's about control, not protecting children. Also age verification is still a problem in itself. Given your idea of a physical card, kids will find a way to use the card of their parents. Even if the card couldn't be misused by others - you give platforms the knowledge of whom is a minor, which means they can be targeted better.

Kids will simply find a way to circumvent it without any extra steps. To make age verification useful for protecting kids, you'd need to lock down every software on every operating system and put it under tight government control. We're talking about things like every programming language with a networking library, wget, curl, every web browser that was ever developed, etc. All kinds of tools and software would need…

The same people want to require licensing before you can publish software, if you look deep enough in these threads.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#402

Post by biophysboy »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

Give me a break - tech is not remotely interested in comprehensive “systems” thinking about the problems that motivated these age verification policies

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#403

Post by account42 »

iamnothere wrote: post #401
jonathanstrange wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids will simply find a way to circumvent it without any extra steps. To make age verification useful for protecting kids, you'd need to lock down every software on every operating system and put it under tight government control. We're talking about things like every programming language with a networking library, wget, curl, every web browser that was ever developed, etc. All kinds of tools and software would need…

The same people want to require licensing before you can publish software, if you look deep enough in these threads.

That's already the case on iOS, Android and even macOS and Windows if you don't want your users to see scary warnings. Of course like many instancing this licensing boils down to paying some company.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#404

Post by friendzis »

DrScientist wrote: post #305
friendzis wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you think about it, the idea of a representative democracy is rooted in the technical difficulties of implementing a direct democracy: both spread of information/discussion to the masses and organizing the votes. In this day and age, probably with a relatively tiny investment into public access points, we could very reasonably have a technically functional direct democracy. The legislative cycle is already authe…

You are confusing the ability to bring information to people, with the ability of people to consume it. As has been mentioned elsewhere on the thread - the real issue is often there are complex 2nd and third order effects, often there are devils in the details. I'm not saying people are not capable of consuming it, I'm saying people don't have the bandwidth. Direct democracy is best when it's used for very specific p…

First, my comment is a knee jerk reaction to the idea of representative democracy falling to authoritarianism, don't take it as seriously in favor of direct democracy.

Second, your comment hinges on an interesting hidden assumption. There's implication, that representative democracy selects for a group with inherently higher average bandwidth allocated per proposal and inherently higher average expertise to evaluate the non-immediate, higher-order effects. I'm not going to contest the idea, however, this assumption has to hold quite strictly for the concerns listed to be material.

> If you use it for every decision, time poor citizens will end up at the mercy of professional story tellers.

Otherwise this concern is just another side of the lobbying coin. The distinction between professional storytellers curating media in favor of certain party and convincing masses or elected representatives on merit of some law is paper thin anyway.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#405

Post by iamnothere »

account42 wrote: post #403
iamnothere wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same people want to require licensing before you can publish software, if you look deep enough in these threads.

That's already the case on iOS, Android and even macOS and Windows if you don't want your users to see scary warnings. Of course like many instancing this licensing boils down to paying some company.

But that’s not (yet) a government license. I’ve seen people unironically advocating for a full professional licensing regime with required exams, fees, insurance requirements, and the like.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#406

Post by caseysoftware »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

> "If we taught systems thinking in schools"

In the US, the public school system can barely teach basic reading and math. And the teachers don't appear to understand 2nd or 3rd order thinking themselves so therefore are unlikely to be able to teach it.

Teaching systems thinking may be an effective solution but it needs an effective delivery system to test it.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#407

Post by ligne »

oarsinsync wrote: post #223
po1nt wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best level of democracy is no democracy. The problem of voting for road repairs is a problem we created by democracy. We voted ourselves into a system we can't escape, just because people back in the days couldn't fully comprehend side effects of their collective decisions. Very few people realize that there is option to not use government cohersion as a solution to everything. I know this is unpopular opinion. T…

> No one cares about UK having a king, because it doesn't change a thing. Which is the position the Monarchy absolutely wants you to have, and they definitely don't want you to know that they have veto power over all laws, and regularly intervene and get laws modified so that they're not included in scope. Meanwhile they just gave themselves a massive pay rise, at a time when government is cutting public spending in…

In theory the King can veto any law he wants. In practice he couldn't without causing a monumental constitutional crisis that would probably end his reign. His unofficial ability to influence government policy is the real issue, but one that is definitely not limited to that one guy with the special blood.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#408

Post by chrisweekly »

onion2k wrote: post #10

If we taught systems thinking in schools things like internet age verification would never get past being an idea on the back of a napkin. People struggle to consider the second-, third-, and nth-order effects of anything so asking them to consider what else might happen if we bring in laws and technical mechanisms to 'protect the children' is unfortunately too a big leap for a lot of them. Most people are bad at spo…

I've long held that Logic should be a part of the core high school curriculum. Understanding basic if/then propositions and a handful of axioms form a robust foundation for reasoning in any domain.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#409

Post by raxxorraxor »

intended wrote: post #387
raxxorraxor wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't want to involve the government in anything when I just want to communicate. It is a pretty simple request and it is not comparable to anything that can endanger others directly. You don't need government ID to talk to people and share info. You don't need government ID to take a dump. Also the criticism of the article is just ignored while it is a very likely development and lack of imagination isn't a…

You spoke yourself and the status quo. Parents are speaking for their kids in a group and against the status quo. The status quo is not working for them.

Nope, that isn't true. Petitions and opinion polls break records with rejecting such proposals.

Re: Age verification is just a precursor to automated attribution of speech

#410

Post by iamnothere »

boomskats wrote: post #295

I'm honestly amazed that people are only just figuring this out. I know that reads like I'm being snarky, but I'm not trying to be. Within the last decade in the UK we have had (among others): - the 2016 Snoopers' Charter - the 2022 Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act - the 2023 Public Order Act - the 2023 Online Safety Act - the 2024 Addendum to the 2016 Snoopers' Charter Couple that with the whole push to repe…

It’s a great time to build parallel systems and networks among likeminded individuals.

If you see tyranny coming, your options (other than silent complicity) are pretty much build a support network or exit.

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