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The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

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Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#421

Post by _heimdall »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Its reasonable to agree a problem exists and that we don't yet have a solution worth implementing.

Until there's a solution that actually addresses the problem without creating more, we should just try to make sure more people also know the problem exists and try to help equip parents to deal with it as best they can for now.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#422

Post by fock »

jschveibinz wrote: post #182

I just listened to a radio program on my local NPR station about the topic of kids and social media. From what was presented, the research shows (longitudinal study) that there is very little evidence of social media impacting mental health--which is shocking because a majority of adults think there is a connection and the politicians are pushing that narrative. I have not personally vetted the research. Has anyone e…

I have not researched this, but I see some 4 to 10 year olds in the family being on the phone every time I see them. Usually they stream "brainrot" on youtube on the tablet while they play roblox on the phone. From time to time there are ads.

In school they still perform ok for what is required there today, but from what happens when you say "oh, wifi doesn't work today in our place" I would argue they behave like addicts... It might be a fun addiction insofar as mental problems are usually not the cause but possibly the result if this runs for years on end.

My pet theory is that these kids will graduate to online-gambling around 12-14 because that's exactly the kind of gameplay they prefer on roblox currently. Even when I was 16 there was a noticable share of classmates gambling online - and this was pre-facebook.

Probably the best way forward would be to make KYC mandatory for large, data-selling public fora like we do with banks. Noone complains there and noone is forced to use platforms.

If you don't want to do KYC (such as on hn or a model train forum) you are liable for any criminal activity you enable (such as pedophiles using your private messages or whatever...).

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#423

Post by cultofmetatron »

bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

> There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

yea, you know who they are, I know who they are and we all knoww what they are tryin to hide. but anyone who spells it out will get downvoted to hell here.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#424

Post by budududuroiu »

api wrote: post #19
athrowaway3z wrote: post #17

Targeting the kids is so infuriatingly successful tactics. It gives the adults the option to be apathetic. In reality, anyone who is a kid now will never know any better. It just means we're the last generations that had the luxury of a world that remembered what privacy was.

EDIT: about half to two thirds of the responders didn't catch "I'm not a fan of these proposed solutions." I am not saying I like these solutions. I am trying to explain why they have support among the general public. Many of these responses are the usual "shoot the messenger" response you get online when you point out what the "other side" thinks and why they think it even if you don't necessarily agree . On this is…

The median age of a youth extremists is 19 [1], with the mean being ~20 (study rounded up).

The main issue with this bill is that it requires a huge cost in civic freedoms, with questionable benefits to societal stability. Not only do most youth extremists first offend past the threshold this age verification would catch, this legislation lets big tech off the hook for designing addictive algorithms in the first place, since "there are no kids on the platform anymore, and if there are, they're breaking the law".

[1]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1057610X.2025.2...

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#425

Post by ben_w »

infinite_spin wrote: post #358
kulahan wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

there are plenty of alternatives if we're willing to shift these costs and responsibility to ISPs, which could separate the internet into two networks, one for children and the other for the rest of us. This is technically just as feasible, and probably cheaper than requiring every website to process (and probably retain) personally identifiable information.. significantly safer too. But that wouldn't come with baked…

> if we're willing to shift these costs and responsibility to ISPs, which could separate the internet into two networks, one for children and the other for the rest of us. This is technically just as feasible, and probably cheaper than requiring every website to process

It really wouldn't be.

Do that at OSI layer 3, every routed packet would have to have an "was this sent by a kid's device" flag.

Higher levels aren't the ISP's role. Lower levels, you'd need duplicate hardware specifically for kids, which couldn't connect to the adult's internet.

In the real world, we're still arguing about something that was already embarrassingly slow in its roll-out during my degree, and I graduated 20 years ago: IPv6.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#426

Post by ExoticPearTree »

bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

Too many people expressing themselves on the internet with nothing that can be done against them...

From a government perspective, it is a gold mine to know who's on the internet. For advertisers it is another goldmine - you can target at will without having to figure out first some demographics. An probably there are some angles I don't yet see, but the fact that this is a concentrated effort across the world make my spidey sense tingle.

And who doesn't want to protect the children?

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#427

Post by ben_w »

fivetenpen wrote: post #355
kulahan wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

The internet was never a danger to children’s mental health until social media engagement algorithms. The real solution is to ban any and all engagement algorithms that are designed to get people addicted. Age checks, aka identity checks, are just another blatant attempt to siphon more personal data by linking your real identity to all of your web activity

> The internet was never a danger to children’s mental health until social media engagement algorithms.

I suspect that depends on subtle phrasing.

If for the sake of argument I presuppose that film classification ratings are necessary to protect children’s mental health, then the un-filtered contents of shock sites and porn sites will have had an impact even in the early years of the internet.

However, the early years of the internet simply had a much smaller proportion of kids online to experience this.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#428

Post by munksbeer »

jeroenhd wrote: post #227
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

Facebook has been documented for sponsoring these bills in the USA. But we also have years of research about how social media and other internet phenomena are ruining kids' lives. I don't disagree with the principle of a lot of these laws, but many implementations are too flawed to be a mistake.

>But we also have years of research about how social media and other internet phenomena are ruining kids' lives.

That's not the question. Some group is obviously pushing this agenda globally. Who?

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#429

Post by LunicLynx »

bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

Maybe this is about time. It’s pretty clear that the internet as such is not and never has been for children.

But the way it is done is weird for sure.

But how do you do it in a way that it isn’t a burden on the parents or peer pressure the issue that breaks the intent?

Or is your point that the internet should be used by children?

If so how do you propose restricting the harmful content?

From my point of view we are in the digital Middle Ages. We do not yet understand if this global connection is actually being good or bad in the long run. The only thing that starts to crystallize is that it isn’t great for children. Specifically social media, especially especially people gaining access to children on troves to spread ideology.

So how to solve it. And „I don’t like the current approach“ without having a better idea is not a solution.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#430

Post by munksbeer »

cultofmetatron wrote: post #423
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

> There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this? yea, you know who they are, I know who they are and we all knoww what they are tryin to hide. but anyone who spells it out will get downvoted to hell here.

I don't know who you're talking about. Am I missing some context here?
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