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The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

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Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#351

Post by nullbio »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #344
nullbio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels more like a joint effort given the way the world is going with AI. Likely, everyone who has access to the internet will require a passport to authenticate and access all websites, including AI bots. That way, any illegitimate activity from AI bots can be traced back to individuals.

If there was to be a small silver lining out of all this, then a way to verify human comments would be nice. But it's not worth the privacy impacts and chilling of free speech.

Yeah, I have no idea what a good solution is that solves what is coming when malicious actors start flooding the web with agents at hyperscale, because that is certainly going to come.

I'm really hoping smart people can figure out a good middleground before the government does something stupid. Because right now, their two cannons are either:

- Ban open-weight/open-source models and self-hosted LLMs

- Require internet passports to access any website and have everything recorded and monitored for signs of abuse that can be tied back to an individual and enforced in real life

What does a good middle-ground look like? I can't think of one. Neither of these outcomes is good and neither of them are enforceable. You ban something for law abiding citizens and only criminals will use it, and if you restrict everything behind internet passports then the criminals will just use the millions of stolen identities they already have access to.

Maybe biometrics that generate short-lived tokens that only the government can tie back to an individual? Like a "biometric session". Still though, you can kiss freedoms goodbye. It's no surprise Sam Altman started Orb so long ago, he obviously saw this one coming.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#352

Post by LugosFergus »

jtmarl1n wrote: post #265
GeekyBear wrote: post #201

Parents already have the ability to lock down Android or iOS devices for their own children, if they choose to do so.

Parental controls are extremely weak on all the major platforms. Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. they all have them so they can check the box but they are not good and certainly not a solution. That said, it is better than nothing, but that’s about it.

Parents have the ability to take any phone or pad out of their hands.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#353

Post by wcarss »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Attestation of age should suffice; no one in a building somewhere needs to verify my age. If I tell you to treat me like a minor, you do it. Operating systems and browsers can work together to send this as a header. If you're a concerned parent: set your children's ages in their device accounts.

Done. This alternative solves the whole problem and it's been brought up a million times, but it doesn't matter, because this isn't about protecting children or anything about ages. It's about locking down anonymity, and money for a few interests who want to be the verifiers and craft a future where they hold the keys.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#354

Post by fivetenpen »

The internet was never a danger to children’s mental health until social media engagement algorithms. The real solution is to ban any and all engagement algorithms that are designed to get people addicted. Age checks, aka identity checks, are just another blatant attempt to siphon more personal data by linking your real identity to all of your web activity

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#355

Post by fivetenpen »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

The internet was never a danger to children’s mental health until social media engagement algorithms. The real solution is to ban any and all engagement algorithms that are designed to get people addicted. Age checks, aka identity checks, are just another blatant attempt to siphon more personal data by linking your real identity to all of your web activity

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#356

Post by bcjdjsndon »

michaelt wrote: post #197
jschveibinz wrote: post #182

I just listened to a radio program on my local NPR station about the topic of kids and social media. From what was presented, the research shows (longitudinal study) that there is very little evidence of social media impacting mental health--which is shocking because a majority of adults think there is a connection and the politicians are pushing that narrative. I have not personally vetted the research. Has anyone e…

There's quite a lot of statistics saying currently teens struggle with mental health even more than is historically normal for teenagers. [1, 2] Young people are also spending less time with friends, drinking less, and having less sex than ever before. Obviously it's difficult to pin a 20-year trend on a single cause. But most parents have the sense their teens spend too much time on their phones; and with social med…

> almost every kid who commits suicide will have recently used social media.

Sound reasoning lol some really hysterical folk on here.

if you actually believed it were that dangerous you wouldn't be literally on social media posting about this would you?

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#358

Post by infinite_spin »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

there are plenty of alternatives if we're willing to shift these costs and responsibility to ISPs, which could separate the internet into two networks, one for children and the other for the rest of us. This is technically just as feasible, and probably cheaper than requiring every website to process (and probably retain) personally identifiable information.. significantly safer too.

But that wouldn't come with baked in surveillance, so "what else can you do" sounds a bit unnerving.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#359

Post by infinite_spin »

SturgeonsLaw wrote: post #344
nullbio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels more like a joint effort given the way the world is going with AI. Likely, everyone who has access to the internet will require a passport to authenticate and access all websites, including AI bots. That way, any illegitimate activity from AI bots can be traced back to individuals.

If there was to be a small silver lining out of all this, then a way to verify human comments would be nice. But it's not worth the privacy impacts and chilling of free speech.

It's also not the responsibilities of internet users to provide a way for websites to verify that comments are human. If they want to make that a part of their commenting process that's a choice they can make without requiring legislation.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#360

Post by orthoxerox »

wcarss wrote: post #353
kulahan wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Attestation of age should suffice; no one in a building somewhere needs to verify my age. If I tell you to treat me like a minor, you do it. Operating systems and browsers can work together to send this as a header. If you're a concerned parent: set your children's ages in their device accounts. Done. This alternative solves the whole problem and it's been brought up a million times, but it doesn't matter, because th…

> If you're a concerned parent: set your children's ages in their device accounts.

And if you're a concerned government, make OS vendors support it and make parents criminally responsible for not setting it.

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