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The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

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Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#411

Post by saghm »

ars wrote: post #282
GeekyBear wrote: post #201

Parents already have the ability to lock down Android or iOS devices for their own children, if they choose to do so.

That's just not true. If you give your kid WhatsApp access because that's how 95% of their peers text each other, then your kid has access to a hidden chat that can only be revealed by typing a secret code in the search bar. Tell me how a parent is supposed to parent their kid when they can do that? Locking down WhatsApp is no solution because then they can't talk to anyone. (Other countries do not use SMS as much as…

> If you give your kid WhatsApp access because that's how 95% of their peers text each other, then your kid has access to a hidden chat that can only be revealed by typing a secret code in the search bar.

So the solution to parents deciding to give their kids access to stuff is to make me flash my ID every time I go online on one of my devices that I use in my childless household? And you're confident that there won't be plenty of parents who just put their ID information in for their kids anyhow?

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#412

Post by saghm »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Oh good, there have never been studies coordinated to come out to influence public opinion based on shoddy science before; just ask the tobacco industry

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#413

Post by bluebarbet »

fivetenpen wrote: post #355
kulahan wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

The internet was never a danger to children’s mental health until social media engagement algorithms. The real solution is to ban any and all engagement algorithms that are designed to get people addicted. Age checks, aka identity checks, are just another blatant attempt to siphon more personal data by linking your real identity to all of your web activity

This is conspiracism-adjacent and therefore unhelpful IMO. Perhaps people (and therefore politicians) simply believe that it is more feasible to implement end-user ID checks than somehow to put the genie of two decades of social media back in the bottle. I agree that this is not necessarily true but the failure of imagination seems very plausible.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#414

Post by bArray »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Our environment contains harms. Vehicles are several tonnes traveling 60+ mph, they make guns look safe. The calculation is a risk-reward one.

The question we have to ask ourselves is whether these "protect the children" laws are worth the internet freedoms they are about to erode. I would argue not.

1. It is not the state's responsibility to raise your children. They should ensure that safety is available, they should have some ability to deal with clear cases of abuse - but otherwise you're on your own. Anybody who thinks they want a nanny state just has to imagine the worst possible government abusing this power.

2. On the basis of providing safety, it would be enough for example for mobile phone OSes to provide parent restrictions (as they currently do). Kids can't afford to buy phones, so it's the parents in almost all cases giving them unfiltered access. If you really really want to ensure that all children have filtered access on phones, just spot check kid's phones and confiscate them if they do not have the locks enabled.

It seems insane to me that so many parents believe they have zero responsibility for their children's access to the internet, despite being the source of that access. I'm sorry, parents need to step up.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#415

Post by bArray »

protocolture wrote: post #400
protocolture wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its Australia. No joke our politicians subject us to something stupid, and then travel around telling their foreign peers how amazing and genius they are for doing so. They help write the legislation for other countries. Of course they later return and have to deal with the results of their stupidity, but its already been sold.

Just to piss off the downvoters more, here is a link https://www.afr.com/technology/australia-takes-social-media-...

I don't think people should be down voting this without at least providing some context.

I know Aus and NZ are quite authoritarian when it comes to this stuff - I have seen it directly for myself. I was at the Christchurch Call public engagement meeting [1] when they were planning some of these things.

[1] https://www.christchurchcall.org/

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#416

Post by sph »

rockskon wrote: post #364
sph wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That Facebook story is an AI generated attempt at astroturf that has gone viral, but we shouldn’t probably continue perpetuating it. It is not Meta working across the globe because they’re too lazy to implement age verification. Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48708278

Meta is publicly posting ads in Europe promoting age verification, so yes Meta is a part of the problem.

What does Meta get out of enacting mass surveillance of the entire Western world (not even for their personal benefit)? That they can avoid spending 6 months implementing ID checks like porn sites have done?

Also can I see an example of those ads? Google isn’t surfacing anything relevant

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#417

Post by bonesss »

krater23 wrote: post #261
downrightmike wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world sucks and the kids have no hope. Social media/ internet is to distract everyone from the real world problems

Normally we used beer for that, but during covid we've learned a whole generation that going out is danger and staying at the couch is good. And they decided that it's much easier than going out and have stressful situations with other people.

We used to have peer pressure where slightly older slightly tougher kids would call you names if you didn't man up and try some beer.

Now all that peer pressure is distilled online in short, monologue based, video format, unilateral edited transmissions setting beauty, purity, and behavior standards based on claims, and everyone has a permanent digital record, and mass shame campaigns targeted at random individuals are routine.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#418

Post by mike_hearn »

kulahan wrote: post #341
bArray wrote: post #225

Anybody else think it is weird that suddenly all Western countries suddenly want to lockdown the internet to "protect the children"? There is surely an international special interest group lobbying for this?

A lot of studies came out kinda at the same time showing how harmful it is and people aren’t coming up with alternatives. What else can you do?

Can you give some examples of such studies? The ones I've seen are all pseudo-scientific or provide very low grade evidence, often nothing more than simple correlations.

The default value assigned to a social study from academia should be zero these days, so there merely being a lot of them doesn't mean anything. You really need some very high quality evidence to justify this kind of huge change.

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#419

Post by Telaneo »

sph wrote: post #416
rockskon wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is publicly posting ads in Europe promoting age verification, so yes Meta is a part of the problem.

What does Meta get out of enacting mass surveillance of the entire Western world (not even for their personal benefit)? That they can avoid spending 6 months implementing ID checks like porn sites have done? Also can I see an example of those ads? Google isn’t surfacing anything relevant

This article[1] gives some examples, but annoyingly, no relevant pictures.

> Denmark’s digital affairs minister criticized Meta for an advertising campaign promoting regulations on age checks for social media in an interview with POLITICO.

[1] https://www.politico.eu/article/denmark-digital-minister-sla...

Re: The KIDS Act would require age checks to get online

#420

Post by testfrequency »

sph wrote: post #416
rockskon wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meta is publicly posting ads in Europe promoting age verification, so yes Meta is a part of the problem.

What does Meta get out of enacting mass surveillance of the entire Western world (not even for their personal benefit)? That they can avoid spending 6 months implementing ID checks like porn sites have done? Also can I see an example of those ads? Google isn’t surfacing anything relevant

Do you not understand who is part of the money and power circles? Think about it
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