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The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#241

Post by kelnos »

GMoromisato wrote: post #135
throw-the-towel wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this kind of ritual flagellation supposed to mitigate Trump though?

Ironically, it's this ritual self-flagellation that helped elect Trump. Normies lost faith in the media partly because they were seen as not really loving America. And if you don't trust the media, then it's a lot easier to believe Trump's lies.

I feel like it's the other way around: Trump got elected because he was extremely critical of the US, and spun that as "America sucks right now because the liberals have ruined it".

And beyond that, he just said the right words to people who were not doing so well in the economy. Lies, of course, but very seductive lies, and for a while I even felt bad for some Trump voters for getting sucked into those lies. And then of course he leaned into the popular right-wing culture-war stuff.

(No longer, though: at some point you lose the ability to say "but I thought he would help me!" after the 500th time he hasn't helped you like he said he would.)

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#242

Post by microgpt »

Waterluvian wrote: post #45
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such an absurd statement. Oh come on, it's hardly "absurd." > What US aerospace has created post 1969 is nothing short of remarkable in comparison. (And we can be proud of the Apollo era too.) What are you referring to? If you want to chart progress over time, consider this: In 1919, people were still flying biplanes and civilian aviation barely existed. Fifty years later, in 1969, you've got the 747 -- con…

The onboard WiFi was terrible prior to 1970.

That's just an epoch issue. Set the date to 2003 and it should work.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#243

Post by microgpt »

dcrazy wrote: post #120
jquery wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering who the current face of the country is and how we are acting on the world stage, it’s the least they can do.

This is why the right gets away with saying liberals hate America. Because as long as there is anything to criticize about America (which there always will be), some people simply cannot make a single truly positive statement about America, or even things that happened in or came from America. Slate is even worse than The Atlantic in this regard.

they literally made a positive statement in the quote you're talking about

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#244

Post by microgpt »

mandeepj wrote: post #225
dcrazy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the right gets away with saying liberals hate America. Because as long as there is anything to criticize about America (which there always will be), some people simply cannot make a single truly positive statement about America, or even things that happened in or came from America. Slate is even worse than The Atlantic in this regard.

> This is why the right gets away with saying liberals hate America. Right can’t say a single word without bringing up Left first! What’s their obsession with them? Why they seek constant validation from Left? Pretty clear who’s hateful! Given the current mess, it’s also clear who hates America.

Also, liberals aren't the left.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#245

Post by GrifMD »

GMoromisato wrote: post #67

Anyone interested should read Joe Sutter's book, 747. Sutter was the lead engineer for the development of the 747 and he has some awesome stories. One interesting story is that Juan Trippe (CEO of PanAm) wanted Boeing to create a double-decker airplane. He was enamored with the idea of "ocean liners" cruising the sky. But Sutter (and other engineers) knew that it would be impossible to create what he wanted, so inste…

I'm kind of torn between the top deck and the nose seats.

I've flown British Airways's business class on the upper deck, and I've flown Qantas' business class which is all on the lower deck starting at the nose. I wasn't quite at the front, but I was close enough to see the slightly more forward facing windows. I always thought it'd be great to sit in that first row and have that more forward facing view.

I had a blast on BA's though, as I was young and blowing through a bunch of airline miles on a transatlantic flight with my now wife. Getting to sit backwards on a plane was a little fun change too. Those BA seats (their last generation business class) are pretty bad by business class standards, even at the time, but they were alright on the narrower upper deck of a 747.

It's a shame, as I don't think I'll likely ever fly in a 747 again. I rarely fly Korean Air or Lufthansa, and I've got no plans to fly Air China.

I will say though, I really didn't like flying the 747 in economy. I did with Qantas a couple times, and it was noticeably louder and less pleasant than their A380s which had started flying at the time.

So my recommendation: fly a 747 at the front or upper deck if you can in business or first, at least once if you've never had the chance. Avoid it if you're flying economy. Most other wide body jets will be newer, quieter, and all around more pleasant.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#246

Post by microgpt »

boxed wrote: post #234
jquery wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normies lost faith in the media partly because they were seen as not really loving America. I would argue they lost faith because the media constantly lies and distorts the truth to promote the ideology of capital. They are elite and disconnected, absolutely, just not in a left wing way, but a corpo-capitalist way (which only looks “left” if you’re to the right of capital).

> constantly lies and distorts the truth sure > to promote the ideology of capital eh, no that's false. They promote the ideology of ad revenue at most, which causes audience capture, which on the left means anti-capital crazy talk like pro-theocracy, anti-growth and other weird shit.

Social media promotes ad revenue (engagement). That's why it's full of brainrot slop and outrage bait. Legacy media promotes ideologies consistent with its owners, which is why for instance it downplays bad stuff Israel does and upplays bad stuff Iran does.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#247

Post by ggm »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #230
ggm wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> billions in illegal EU government subsidies. I think this is a bit gratuitous. It's not like Boeing doesn't receive massive subsidies. I'm not disputing that subsidies exist. WTO said "both sides" and you are on a TKO because the fine to Europe was bigger than the fine to the US.

I wasn't trying to get into a comparison with US, but do think they they are relevant to the financial accounting of the 380 programing. Airbus got some 15 odd billion in launch aid that was to be paid back through sales that never occurred. I love the plane itself. It is my top choice for transatlantic flight. Businesses class is fantastic. If you get a window, they have stow cabinets big enough for my backpack, lap…

So the point was that they had massive sunk costs which couldn't be recovered. The legality or otherwise of the EU subsidies is a bit beside the point.

It's absolutely one of my favourites to fly on. I'll miss it when they replace it with the 2 engine widebodies. Economics just didn't work out for a good idea.

(A re-engined 747 with something quieter, and with better cabin pressure and humidity could also have worked but Boeing were never going there)

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#248

Post by microgpt »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #230
ggm wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> billions in illegal EU government subsidies. I think this is a bit gratuitous. It's not like Boeing doesn't receive massive subsidies. I'm not disputing that subsidies exist. WTO said "both sides" and you are on a TKO because the fine to Europe was bigger than the fine to the US.

I wasn't trying to get into a comparison with US, but do think they they are relevant to the financial accounting of the 380 programing. Airbus got some 15 odd billion in launch aid that was to be paid back through sales that never occurred. I love the plane itself. It is my top choice for transatlantic flight. Businesses class is fantastic. If you get a window, they have stow cabinets big enough for my backpack, lap…

> that was to be paid back through sales that never occurred.

That just sounds like a state investment

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#249

Post by microgpt »

rootusrootus wrote: post #192
wolvoleo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not American but I feel the sentiment. I'm planning to change nationality soon as 'my' own country is also on the same right-wing conservative track. I'm not interested in making things better anymore. I just want to break with them forever. They deserve no more admiration or loyalty. I don't believe in national pride or even of sports teams. My loyalty is always conditional, as long as my ethics align. I can imagine…

Yes, some people have that viewpoint. Very transactional. I think there was a time when I might have agreed. But as I have gotten older I've gained more of an appreciation for shared mythology and how it promotes social cohesion. Historically in many places religion has been a primary source of shared mythology. In America, despite prominent Christian religions, a strong historical shared mythology has been of our ow…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion btw

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#250

Post by microgpt »

llbbdd wrote: post #109
Rover222 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see your sentiment. I’m so tired of the reflexive self flagellation of a lot of Americans. It’s often based in ignorance.

Agreed. A lot of my countrymen have forgotten that America generally kicks ass, it's sad to see.

In what ways is America currently kicking ass?
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