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The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#91

Post by GMoromisato »

moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

I agree with you, and I would have expected Ian Bogost to take a more holistic view.

Talking about why, for example, Boeing never build a larger passenger airplane, or why the Concorde is no longer flying, would actually make for an interesting analysis of technology and business.

Why did the progression from the Wright brothers to the 747 not continue for the next fifty years? The answer has to do with physics and economics rather than lack of American ambition or excellence.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#92

Post by Rover222 »

moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

Glad to see your sentiment. I’m so tired of the reflexive self flagellation of a lot of Americans. It’s often based in ignorance.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#93

Post by GMoromisato »

rayiner wrote: post #88
moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

America is currently leading the way in both commercial aerospace and AI simultaneously. This feels like a decade old article.

Just off the top of my head, I can come up with a dozen American accomplishments that would have blown the minds of 747 engineers:

The Internet

Hubble Space Telescope

Google

Deep Blue beating Kasparov

iPhone

Human Genome Project

F-22/B-2/F-35 stealth tech

Falcon Heavy dual booster landings

Waymo

Starship live re-entry video via Starlink

ChatGPT

B-52 still flying

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#94

Post by rootusrootus »

Rover222 wrote: post #92
moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

Glad to see your sentiment. I’m so tired of the reflexive self flagellation of a lot of Americans. It’s often based in ignorance.

It is very tiring. I get why Europeans might enjoy taking shots at us (though at one point I'd have said it was more of a good natured ribbing, given that Europe's history is also many Americans' history), and I fully understand the armies of bots spreading invective ... but the constant dogging on America by our own citizens is sad. I'm sure a lot of this outcome is intentional, but nobody fights back.

America is many things, has done many things. Some great, some not so much. Americans themselves should at least be honest about seeing the good parts even if nobody else will admit it. And if we're going to keep progressing forward we need people to be on board in good faith.

/soapbox rant over

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#95

Post by sidewndr46 »

GMoromisato wrote: post #67

Anyone interested should read Joe Sutter's book, 747. Sutter was the lead engineer for the development of the 747 and he has some awesome stories. One interesting story is that Juan Trippe (CEO of PanAm) wanted Boeing to create a double-decker airplane. He was enamored with the idea of "ocean liners" cruising the sky. But Sutter (and other engineers) knew that it would be impossible to create what he wanted, so inste…

This seems like an odd version of the story. My understanding is Boeing designed lots of military aircraft, not all reached production. The 747 is the result of some of that design work.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#96

Post by sidewndr46 »

moojacob wrote: post #31

Didn’t read the full article but it starts with > The jet was perhaps the pinnacle of American engineering excellence. Its retirement signals an end to an era of American culture—and ambition. End of American ambition? SpaceX landing is rockets… today! That’s apples to apples also, both aerospace. In other fields we have literally taught computers how to talk.

I find the whole thing a little odd. The 747 seems to be a great aircraft. It's also a quad jet and the change in regulations for ETOPS makes twinjets a no brainer for reducing cost. There's no reason to hurry and up and get rid of them, many will continue in cargo service for many years. But there isn't any reason to build big quad jets any longer

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#98

Post by alistairSH »

robotnikman wrote: post #4

Guess I probably wont get a chance to fly on one, flying on the 747 was on my bucket list.

I got what was probably my last 747 trip a few years ago on a BA flight from DC to Heathrow.

But I probably missed my chance for an A380. Maybe a Lufthansa flight will pop up that’s affordable. The other airlines mostly operate in the ME or Asia, and no plans for either right now.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#99

Post by alistairSH »

rbanffy wrote: post #53
PaulHoule wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is much nicer than the 737/A320 class. Just thinking of the curve of a 737 makes my neck knot up. Bigger planes like the 747/757/767/777 are much more comfortable as well as modern planes like the A220/E195. 737 class planes are so ubiquitous that many passengers have no idea another experience is possible.

My dislike for widebody airliners is that the odds of getting a window seat are much smaller. What’s even the point of flying if you can’t look at the world from up high?

Reserve your seat then. Doesn’t cost that much on most airlines.

Re: The Boeing 747 begins its final descent

#100

Post by rootusrootus »

rayiner wrote: post #89
mrcwinn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an absurd statement. What US aerospace has created post 1969 is nothing short of remarkable in comparison. (And we can be proud of the Apollo era too.)

Today’s airliners cruise slower than a 747.

Not due to any technical limitation, and that is just one single metric.
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