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Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

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Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#161

Post by watwut »

SR2Z wrote: post #143
bitwize wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you actually have a job? Do you talk to your coworkers? This is an insane take. Plenty of people are critical of AI at my job despite a big push to use it. I find the comparison to NK distasteful, coming from someone who presumably is pretty well paid and can quit their job whenever they want. If you're feeling humiliated... well, I don't think it's because your boss wants you to try AI.

I had seen exact same dynamic as he describes. So yeah, he is speaking to people and coworkers. That is how he knows.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#162

Post by watwut »

faangguyindia wrote: post #154
cyphar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a carpentry shop buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of power tools without consulting with their employees to see what they actually need to get their job done more effectively? The logic of buying the tools then forcing the employees to use them "or else" is completely backwards in any sane world. (Of course, we've all had bosses that went to some marketing seminar and come back having been tricked^Wsold…

>Why would a carpentry shop buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of power tools without consulting with their employees to see what they actually need to get their job done more effectively? T What happens if employees say no power tools are needed and after a few months a competition shows up with power tools and hires a bunch of noobs and beating your production numbers and sales? Your employees simply may leave th…

> beating your production numbers and sales?

That did not happened.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#163

Post by rendaw »

aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

This is obviously wrong. Management has never cared about how engineers do their job. There's never been a push for any other productivity boosting technology: better languages, better editors, automated refactorings, paid code intelligence tools, etc. But suddenly AI comes along and the CEO says "all developers need to write code entirely with LLMs".

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#164

Post by JoshTriplett »

no-name-here wrote: post #157
JoshTriplett wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do a workshop on power tools, measure their efficacy and the quality of the result, do some demonstration videos on power tools, get people to compare, seek feedback on their usage. Don't count electricity and sawdust, or you'll find people getting very good at expensively turning blocks of wood into sawdust.

Is the idea that most stubborn employees would adopt AI if their company made videos showing internal metrics that AI is better? > Don’t count electricity and sawdust I agree that it seems wasteful, but is there some better way to accomplish it at the scale of hundreds, or hundreds of thousands, etc? I'm personally doubtful that stubborn employees would switch even if a video provided internal metrics, videos, etc.

Perhaps don't start out with the conclusion that it's obviously better and anyone rejecting it is just "stubborn".

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#165

Post by JV00 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #75
JV00 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting everybody freely experiment for a while is much more effective than appointing somebody to do just that.

Freely experiment sure. But you're not doing an effective experiment if you tell people they'll be graded on how many tokens they use.

I agree with you, but I was answering parent who suggested appointing specific people.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#166

Post by [deleted] »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #75
JV00 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Letting everybody freely experiment for a while is much more effective than appointing somebody to do just that.

Freely experiment sure. But you're not doing an effective experiment if you tell people they'll be graded on how many tokens they use.

[deleted]

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#167

Post by HDThoreaun »

watwut wrote: post #162
faangguyindia wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why would a carpentry shop buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of power tools without consulting with their employees to see what they actually need to get their job done more effectively? T What happens if employees say no power tools are needed and after a few months a competition shows up with power tools and hires a bunch of noobs and beating your production numbers and sales? Your employees simply may leave th…

> beating your production numbers and sales? That did not happened.

Many, many hand tool shops were outcompeted by power tool users.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#168

Post by codegladiator »

rezonant wrote: post #159
seattle_spring wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was lucky enough to receive a weeklong $50k per head AI training wow! That sounds like an unbelievable grift. Who were they such that anyone could possibly think that's a worthwhile investment?

Isn't that like a day worth of tokens?

10 days

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#169

Post by lmm »

ryandrake wrote: post #97
aurareturn wrote: post #2

Tokenmaxxing was just a way to force employees to start leveraging AI in a meaningful way. For companies that have measured performance based on token spend, they can now dial it back. Employees have learned to leverage AI for things they wouldn’t have prior. Now they know what’s possible and what’s not. No one is stupid enough to always measure performance based on token spend and have unlimited budget. It was alway…

> Management felt like employees weren't leveraging AI fast enough. If my productivity is in line with their expectations, I don’t understand why management cares what tools I’m using to do it. No employer ever told me to use emacs instead of vi, even though I’m 10x more productive in one vs the other. So why all of a sudden does management need to micromanage my tools?

> why all of a sudden does management need to micromanage my tools?

Because doing so increases the value of their stock options. They might privately think it's as dumb as you do, but apparently the stock market disagrees.

Re: Tokenmaxxing is dead, long live tokenmaxxing

#170

Post by TeMPOraL »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #164
no-name-here wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the idea that most stubborn employees would adopt AI if their company made videos showing internal metrics that AI is better? > Don’t count electricity and sawdust I agree that it seems wasteful, but is there some better way to accomplish it at the scale of hundreds, or hundreds of thousands, etc? I'm personally doubtful that stubborn employees would switch even if a video provided internal metrics, videos, etc.

Perhaps don't start out with the conclusion that it's obviously better and anyone rejecting it is just "stubborn".

Nobody started out with that conclusions. The tests and experiments and workshops and consulting with select employees you propose, were all done 2-3 years ago. Results are in, but a chunk of population decides to ignore them and obstinately continue believing and claiming that it doesn't work, which is a conclusion they started out with.
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