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Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

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Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#181

Post by trhway »

mikrotikker wrote: post #162
trhway wrote: post #20

the main point to me here is that such decisions should be fully public including all the input info and all the reasoning that is behind the decision, similar to a court case. Instead we have that guessing game.

Not when it comes to issues of national security

especially national security - the society should be aware what trade-offs are made for the security of that society, ie. what the real costs and whether the society wants to bear those costs and considers it reasonable.

If you meant specifically trade and state secrets - well, there has been a well established practice of handling such in for example court system and other public proceedings/disclosures/FOIA/etc..

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#182

Post by wolvoleo »

consumer451 wrote: post #157
wolvoleo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing but there they don't get to pick and choose what they want to log. But yeah this thing is likely more protectionism.

Last I checked everything is logged in the USA. If you want to make a data play in the USA, why wouldn't you log and sell everything? IIRC, the Subaru US EULA even included intimate activity.

Lol really? That's terrible.

I would so rip out the 5G module after buying a car.

In fact I'm currently having these annoying spam calls from my ISP because I replaced their shitty fibre modem with my own ONT and Unifi router. But now they're constantly calling me to make a maintenance visit because they think it's down. I tried telling them once but apparently this is not an option in their stupid scripts. I just blocked their number in my phone in the end.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#183

Post by eps »

mrtnmcc wrote: post #169
eps wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means that Polestar's ultimate owner is a state-aligned Chinese conglomerate. The devs, in the UK or not, will do what it tells them to do.

That's some extreme paranoia. Don't you think the devs are competent or ethical enough to call out an ask like that?

A close friend of mine worked for a company with a similar control structure. It's not a paranoia, leave alone an extreme one.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#184

Post by linzhangrun »

Kon5ole wrote: post #146
linzhangrun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volvo also has BEVs, which are rebadged Zeekr (Geely) and mainly sold in China.

To be clear - most of Volvo's BEVs are their own designs, including all currently for sale in the US.

In China, those that they can still sold out is, lol :) The Volvo EM90 ($92,371+) is the Zeeker 009 ($64,572+). The Volvo EX30 ($23,504+) is the Zeeker X ($22,916+).

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#185

Post by busterarm »

05 wrote: post #180
busterarm wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DJI makes a ton more than just drones.

Yes and unless they start making new ones without any electronics in them they're all still banned

That's also just new products. Anything they already have been selling they can still sell.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#186

Post by sbalea »

Kon5ole wrote: post #145
queenkjuul wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polestar designs cars in Sweden and builds then in the US for many years, it's still strange

I don't think Polestar should be banned, nor any other Chinese car maker for that matter, but I can understand why Volvo gets a different treatment. Volvo probably employs several 1000s of people throughout the US from decades of dealerships, workshops, second hand sales etc, and they have a relatively large factory in the US. Polestar OTOH has no factories and use direct-sales instead of going through dealerships. S…

You're touching on what is probably the real reason. Volvo has an extensive dealer network in the US, and dealers are traditionally involved in the political process (i.e. they lobby extensively). Also Volvos enjoy a decent market share and brand recognition. Polestar on the other hand only sold in single digit thousands in the past couple of years and are definitely not as well known. There's not a lot of difference otherwise, Polestar 3 is 95% identical to Volvo EX90 and they're both manufactured at Volvo's South Carolina plant mainly from Chinese parts. Polestar 4 is indeed diferent, based on Zeeker 001 and manufactured in South Korea. Anyways, my guess is Polestar didn't jump through the hoops and didn't grease the right wheels, probably because it was not worth the trouble for what is about 5-6% of their global market share

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#187

Post by psadauskas »

WarmWash wrote: post #49

The entire article doesn't once stipulate that the grounds for banning a Chinese owned car is having telemetry that phones home to China. Maybe Volvo still does and it's a mystery why they can still sell here. Maybe Volvo doesn't and there is no story here. But if the car talks to China and gets updates from China, the US doesn't care if it's built here.

As an American citizen, I'm _far_ less uncomfortable with the Chinese government having my telemetry data than I am with the US. In fact, they're just one step above "nobody has my data", and far, far below "US Government" and "any US-based big tech company". The Chinese government has no control over my life, and the US government thinks I'm a terrorist.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#188

Post by insane_dreamer »

Schiendelman wrote: post #122
insane_dreamer wrote: post #85

dammit, was planning on buying a Polestar at the end of this year when our Tesla lease runs out

At least you have the R2 now!

I would have bought the Tesla a few years ago but will never willingly put $ in the pocket of someone like Elon

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#189

Post by hawkice »

Kon5ole wrote: post #171
hawkice wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll.

>The vast majority of the value provided vs extracted, for any business, is related to consumer surplus and gross margins, as opposed to payroll. Not sure what you mean here but I suspect we're talking about different things. Payroll is obviously value created by the business that's directly given to the society where the business operates, and it's not uncommon that it's higher than the company profits. Take Amazon…

And taking the labor and time of the employees is a value extracted. While there is some modest surplus I hope people get from their job (e.g. they'd do the same job for less money), that surplus of excess wages over what people would accept will be lower than consumer surplus for almost any standard business.

Re: Feds Killed Polestar and Spared Volvo

#190

Post by ifwinterco »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #172
ifwinterco wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think actually Tobin tax is the wrong word sorry. I don't mean just taxing FX transactions, I mean taxing all cross-border capital flows. So yes you can do everything in dollars (and a lot of the time the dollars never need to leave New York) But eventually you do have to pay the workers and taxes in China in yuan, and ultimately that money comes from the US consumer, making some kind of US capital account transact…

> But eventually you do have to pay the workers and taxes in China in yuan, and ultimately that money comes from the US consumer, making some kind of US capital account transaction inevitable? The thing you're missing is that money never actually has to cross the border when both parties to a transaction are on both sides of it. Corporation A gets money from the US consumer and pays it to Corporation B. The money is…

Yes, but if everyone does that all the time then there's zero cross-border capital or investment flows which means... you've solved the problem?

Every country will have zero current account deficit which is getting you a long way towards what people are trying to achieve with tariffs. You could still have a trade deficit because of foreign investment income, but nothing like the massive imbalances that are seen today.

Just mathematically, the only way you can balance a huge trade deficit is with an equally huge financial account surplus. There is no way for everything to be made outside the US and bought by people inside the US indefinitely with no cross-border financial flows.

What you’re talking about is something like a hawala system, which works but it will only work indefinitely if flows in both directions are balanced, otherwise at some point you will have to move money to settle up

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